Ep 02: How To Leverage VA's To Scale Your eCommerce Business

Transcript

‍

‍

How to Leverage Low-Cost Virtual Assistants to Scale Your eCommerce Business

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

All right, welcome to the next episode of Mission Control. I'm your host, Alex Ivanoff. With my co-host and partner, Dave Pancham. Today, we have a very special guest, Omer from Colombia now, and we are so happy to have you on Omer, thank you for joining.

‍

Omer  

I'm excited to be here, man. We did my podcast yesterday, doing your podcast today. And then you're gonna do mine again tomorrow. And then we're just going to flip flop.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, we'll just make it a daily thing for all of eternity. We'll just do each other's podcasts every day. Yeah, so for everyone listening, we're on Omer's podcast Hire Fire last night, and we will, we recorded it last night. So we'll have the link for that in the description. Of course, go check that out. Great show. Has a lot of great entrepreneurs on there. And a lot of good advice about hiring people, and managing people, and making, you know, HR type decisions, which is what your specialty is. And now I want to dig a little bit into that. You know, the biggest reason we have you on here today is I think a lot of brand owners that are listening can grab a lot of value from you on hiring people, managing their first employees, you know, delegating things, and making their life easier, and running a business because, you know, that's what we're here to do. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your background first and your story, make it as long as you want. I've heard the very long version and the very short version. So, you know, do your thing.

‍

Omer  

Yeah, I think a lot of people have heard the long version. So I kind of, kind of give the synopsis but basically about three and a half, almost four years ago, I moved from Georgia to Colorado. In Georgia I was driving for Uber and I just got accepted at a job at Whole Foods. And I was just your normal college kid. I was 22, 23 years old, going back to college for the second time thinking that I'm going to do better things and I dropped everything to move to Colorado. One of my best friends started a marketing agency, his name's Marcus Rosenkjer, and I had the opportunity. I don't know if you guys know this, but I had the opportunity. And I was thinking about this the other day, I had the opportunity to join him in 2017. Before, when he first really joined it, because we were taking the Tai Lopez course I remember, Dave, you talked about, yesterday, about Sam Ovens. Tai Lopez was my guy, he was the one that we bought the Social Media course. But in 2016, 2017, I just didn't feel like I was ready. I felt like I didn't have enough money, which I didn't. But it was a bullshit excuse. I think I could have sold it and got into it. But either way, 20, Come 2018, Marcos, one of my close friends and one of my really good mentors as well in life. He started a marketing agency. And then he partnered up with someone that you guys are familiar with Joel Kaplan. And they started a chiropractic agency and they started scaling it. And they hit a number right around the 20, 30k per month  where they felt like they needed a salesperson. In reality, they didn't. Going, looking back at it, they really did not need a salesperson, they needed more appointments, they needed appointment setters, they needed a media buyer. I was the last person they should have hired, but Marcos liked me enough. I was a close friend of his and I met Joe a few months back. And he for some reason I sold him on myself where they convinced me to drop everything with $100 to my name and move from Georgia to Colorado. And I did it. I sat my parents down. I was like, Hey, I'm moving to Colorado tomorrow. I don't know what, I don't know what I'm doing. I have no idea what they do. But I think I'm gonna figure it out. And that was almost, that was August of 2018. So almost exactly four years ago. And when I joined, as a lot of people know my story, the first few months, I wasn't selling, I was basically an appointment setter. First two, three months, I was basically just setting appointments, and starting to get in the groove of sales, but I probably brought in a few sales here and there. And they were actually paying me a salary. So as a salesperson, especially in our industry, you guys know this, most, I would say 99% of salespeople, again, in our industry get paid purely commissions. The first three, four months, I was getting paid on salary. So they were spending, you know, seven $8,000 a month, not a month, but total over the course of three, four months on me. And I was bringing almost no revenue back. So come January 2018. About five, six months later, they're like, Yo, listen, man, we're running paid ads. We're looking to scale. We want you to build a team, you're perfect culture fit, everything's perfect with you, you're just not bringing results in and I was so nervous because in my head I was like there's no freaking way that I'm making the drive back from Colorado to Georgia. Let me tell you guys, if you want to had to drive through Kansas to get a job and I promise you you'll never want to make that drive again.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, the ultimate make-or-break situation.

‍

Omer  

100% And that was to me one of the, like, the, that got in my head. I was like I don't want to make that drive back. I definitely don't want to go back to school. And I told myself because I already moved out of my parents crib one time and I had to move back in I told myself I'm never moving back then you can just move out of your parents crib go back to your parents house move out move in and and my parents are not your prototypical American parents where everything's okay. And they give me they give me, they give me like, What is it called? allowance. I didn't get an allowance. My parents are Jews and they're Russian like it's the literally the most strict parents you can get. And they're very, very formal education. They think formal education, right. That's the route which is fine. I just, I knew that wasn’t for me. That was not the path that I wanted to go through. And January 2018 with Joel Mark sat me down and had that serious conversation. I basically that week sold I think four or five chiropractors ended up selling like 15 chiropractors that month. And we were around, around 40 to 50k per month. So in both the first five months, we scaled from 20k to like 30, 35k a month, so we grew but very little. But then from January 2019, to June 2019, we grew from 50k a month to 200, to 250k a month. And that was like, wow, I was like, holy shit. This is real. Like, I'm actually, I was a broke college kid at one point, just driving Uber a few months back to now making between 10 and $20,000 a month. And feeling like I'm actually doing something right. Like I would tell people, I actually had a conversation with a potential client, I told him, when you're picking a niche, when you're picking a niche, the most important part about starting a business and the picking a niche part and, and Dave you talked about this yesterday. But flip-flopping is, you need to find, you need to find someone, then when things are not going well, you're still motivated, inspired to talk to them. Because most of the time, you're not going to close people. Nobody closes at 80, 100, 200%. It's just impossible, especially in the beginning. So you need to find a niche that you're okay with not closing. And to me, that was chiropractic. I actually went to see a chiropractor. When I'm bored. I watch, I watch chiropractic. ASMR. Right. People get adjusted, I love I don't know why it's weird. I know. It's super weird. But that's why it wasn't it wasn't like I didn't get annoyed at talking to him. I mean, I talked to 10,000 of them over the course of two years, you know, now skipping my story, but like, sold over 300 Chiropractors, we scaled to $3 million in our second year business. And then obviously COVID hit and we made some dramatic, dramatic, drastic changes as well. But yeah, I mean, it was really crazy. Because for me, it was going from an Uber driver to struggling in sales to making my first 10k month to then jumping into Joel's coaching program. So Joel, actually one of the CEOs, he started his own coaching program, teaching people exactly what helped him go from zero to 300k a month, which is how I got connected with Alex and Dave. And it it for me, I was like, Okay, well, my next evolution is to sell two to, two to $3,000 packages to send to sell 10 to $30,000 packages, which is what I did with him, I sold over almost I won't say around 200 agency owners last year. And then I noticed there was one thing that was missing. Joel provides you everything. If you know nothing about marketing agencies, and you quit your job at McDonald's today. And you're you get into his program, you're getting 20 to 30 hours of coaching calls, you're getting in a three to 400 agency owner community, you're getting hundreds of hours, of course material, you're getting literally everything you need. The one thing that was missing is hiring, hiring virtual assistants, specifically hiring account managers, sales reps, and I noticed that every time at certain stages when, when people scale, you need people, you need people you need people to delegate those tasks to you need managers to manage people. And that's where in November 2020, I started my company using FAVA, where we actually place virtual assistants of all types, from graphic designers to video editors to appointments and cold callers into these agencies. And we have now, I think we did the math. We were about 261 hirings in the last year and a half, which is pretty awesome. And the ultimate mission that I want to help 10,000 businesses find, local, remote talent from all over the world. So that means that we have to help 10,000 businesses like you guys, like whoever it is, find remote talent. And that means we're helping 10,000 people in developing countries, right? I live in Colombia, like I mentioned, in Peru and pull, Philippines. I mean, you name it, literally change your life and change their day, not just their life, but their family's life because of these connections. So that's my story. I tried to cut it off as much as I can.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

That was one of the most rapid fire success story ever. I'm sure that it wasn't, you k now, as quick as you put it. But I think that's an amazing goal. Because, you know, like you said, you know, when you hire a virtual assistant, quote, unquote, from one of these developing countries, in Peru, Brazil, Philippines, wherever, and you pay them half of what a working wages here, it's still life changing for them. And for you to have that goal of 10,000 people, it is life changing for every one of those people probably, you know, it's an insane amount of money to them. And first of all, congrats on the success so far with almost 300 placements. I can't wait to talk to you again in a year and you got a couple 1000 under your belt.

‍

Omer  

Goal, man, it's the goal. It's out there. It's so cool. Because the reason I love what I do is because anybody can do what I do. Like you guys can go on online jobs. You can go on Facebook groups, but what I noticed is that as business owners, if you're spending time going through hundreds of applications and hundreds of videos and instead of actually just getting presented the top candidates in your in the position of need, I'm saving you so much time I'm literally your time saver. And if I find you the right person, I'm saving you even more time because if you find someone that's wrong, and you've got to this to hundreds of applications, and then if you hire someone that's wrong, you're wasting so much time it's not even about the money forget about the money. So yeah, 

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

So you're a kick-ass salesman, um, you're obviously you're you're taking home 10, 20 grand a month, you know in your peak, maybe even more I'm not sure. What, how did you get the stones to walk away and say I want to start my own, you know, talent placement agency. Like, that's kind of bold, right?

‍

Omer  

Man it's super bold because February 2020, I was a 10x, I'll never forget this, 10 Extra to Grant Cardone's also right before COVID Like, you know, I'm thinking COVID is a,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

I was there too.

‍

Omer  

Great! Dude, that was one of the best ones. John Travolta, Kevin Hart, like, awesome. And I met a few amazing connections that I'm still connected with today. But anyways, and I remember it was actually my second time gooing to Vegas. But anyways, I remember one of my friends she asked me and she was at the time she was operations for for Atlas Digital. Her and me were like, super random. Like, what you want to do. Like, do you just want to keep selling chiropractors like, what do you what's your next goal? And I was like, honestly, I just want to keep selling like I just like selling maybe I'll go work for Joel like, I honestly don't know, like, I just really enjoy what would I do? Like I like selling. And that was it. Like that was basically how the conversation ended. So if you knew me, for from 2018, 2019, you'd never think that this guy's going to own a business only because not because I didn't have the potential. But because I just really liked sales. I really liked one aspect, the most important aspect in the sense of the business, which is sales. To be honest with you, bro. I always knew that if I started a business, it was going to be an accident, it was going to be something that just happened on accident. And that's really what happened with VAs someone hit me up. This is literally how it started. That's actually the story. I lost two deals in October 2020. I lost two deals, to coaches in the space that I highly respect. But I also feel like we have a way better program than them. Right. And I'll give you the names as Jr. and Ravi, I'm actually connected with both of them great guys, amazing human beings, amazing coaching programs, I genuinely thought that we had better programs. The only reason I lost those deals is because the one thing that they offer with their program was a VA, they're like, Yo, here, you're gonna get a coaching program, you're gonna get a VA. So I remember, there's a gentleman named Eric Fasnacht, who was actually my very first client, he hit me up, he's like, Yo, I want to join Joel's program. The only way I'll join is if you could find me a VA. I'm like, give me give me give me a couple days. To my sources, 

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Let me figure that out for you. Right there. 

‍

Omer  

This is what's crazy, cuz everybody remembers their first sale. But most people's first sales kind of either shitty, maybe they're not your client anymore. Maybe you're not connected with them. The reason you remember your first sale, because you're like, holy shit, this is possible. Like there's there's something here. Eric Fasnacht is now a multiple time client. We've hired four people for him. His very first VA is now getting paid 1500 to 2k a month where she got when she started. She was making $400 a month. She's one of his top leaders in his company. I mean, and he scaled from 10k a month to he literally hit me up yesterday. They just did their best month yet. $136,000 a month. And I'm really connected with him. He's one of my good friends. He's visiting Medellin, Colombia, South Eric, who's listening to this. And he's the one that kind of inspired me and continues inspire me in hiring people. Because at every stage of his business, we've been helping him. But what I'm trying to say is when I fulfilled for him, bro, all these other people in agency live like, Whoa, you got the VA's, you gotVA's. And it's crazy that Joel who's so connected, right? Joel has everything in the program. We know we never knew where to go for VA's. It was always so random was like, Maybe we should ask those feet this person and that person. I was like, hold up. There's no one fulfilling VA's. Hey, let me put this together. And let me figure out how we're going to do this. And let's start doing this. And from November 2020, bro till August, I actually focused on agency lab I focused on selling agency owners like you guys into the program into their into their inner circle, whatever the case is. While on the side, I was running FAVA. And for the first couple months actually didn't tell anybody. I went behind Marcus's back, Joel's back, everybody's back. I wanted to prove to myself that I didn't need them to help me because I'm already using a lot of their sources and everything right? So we hit 10k a month, we're pretty much in between five to 10k every single month, and then come August. I just realized I was talking to Joel. And I was like dude, I fucking love working with you. i Everything you've taught me everything about business, the hardest, one of the hardest working people I've ever met, I need to start on my own. And he gave me the full, full confidence that I can do this. And I remember my departure from agency like my official like, it was like, so emotional. We were all crying and I was like, I'm gonna fucking destroy this industry. Because I know. I say this all the time. I know my intentions are more about than just money. This is why, this is why I tell everyone, everyone that wants to get into business and to entrepreneurship. I'm like, go fucking get a job at a small town, small business. Go learn the skills get really good. Make money, save money. So when you start a business, you don't have to rely on making money. I think a lot of people started a business and they so focused on the money so much that they let their product die out. They focus on revenue and giving me money. Where for me I'm like, Dude, I just want to provide you guys the best people in the world. The money will come the money will come the money will come. I'm on  a 10 year, 20 year journey here. So yeah.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

That's awesome, man. What a story. That reminds me of the pursuit of happiness where he's like running around town with no shoes on trying to sell those bone density scanners right just finally makes it the end. That's amazing. So, alright, so you have experience in sales now. And now, you're at a point where you have a tremendous amount of experience placing talent within other companies, all types of different companies. For the brand owners listening, what is, what would you say? And we're going quickly here, but we can talk about a little bit more. What is the most important thing to remember about the hiring process?

‍

Omer  

Omer  15:22   Great question. The number one thing I told you, I literally told you guys this yesterday, is to make sure you do it yourself first, don't hire someone and have them figured out, have it figured out, bring someone in to delegate it. A lot of people hire. And then they're like, I don't know what to do with this guy sucks. I'm confused. I don't know, if they're doing the right work. Instead of you become your virtual assistant, you become your appointment setter, you become the sales rep, and then you hire for that position, you're gonna have a lot more. A lot better strategy moving forward.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, makes sense. Who would you say if I, let's say I'm selling, I don't know, I'm selling shoes out of my garage, right? I have a brand that I just started. I'm at 10 to, I don't know, 30 orders a day. And I'm starting to get overwhelmed. And I'm like, Alright, I need some help. I want to grow this thing. I want to take it to the moon. But I don't know who to hire. I don't know what to delegate first. And I don't know, like how to go about it or like, what capabilities I have, and what's the potential here. So who's the first hire?

‍

Omer  

If at that level, it's an appointment setter, it's someone that can send out emails for you. It's someone that can talk to other businesses, it's someone that can, you can delegate the appointment setting. And a lot of times in the eCommerce space, I know emails is huge, email marketing, a lot of people do, you can do Facebook marketing, I mean, you can do all that stuff. But what I've noticed, man, every business is at a different stage. And your first hiring depends on what your most important need is. 90% of the time is people needing more appointments/more sales. That's what I've noticed. People like you guys need more fulfillment and more media buyers, and you got so focused on your product because you're at a 150 client. So it's a little bit different of what your next hire would be. So really depends on the stage of your business and what tasks you need delegated ASAP Rocky, and again, most of the time it's appointment setters.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

So when you say appointment setter for let's say, like, you know, appointment setter, sounds like a sales position. And I'm like, I'm trying to schedule a demo or something. But if you're selling like a hard product, how would you apply that, you know, that skill set to a brand owner.

‍

Omer  

So appointment setter is a, there's two variations. There's calling, someone that calls, cold calls, intro calls, discovery calls. And then there's someone that does organic outreach. So the organic outreach appointment setter is what I would look for someone that can send out a bunch of emails. Someone that can work on Facebook, LinkedIn messages. I mean, I mean, it's crazy how heavily underutilized this is. And because it was so heavily utilized, but what happened is, everyone's saturating the market, partially our fault, because we give everybody the Cold Even masterclass that worked so freaking well for us. So everybody took our Cold Even masterclass , they never changed the scripting. And then they just blasted it to their own people, where if I was starting out, if I was doing organic outreach today with people, which I am, I still do, I will personalize it. Every single message I personalize it. So it takes a little bit longer. But by messaging, I get a lot more appointments, I get my story. It's pretty insane compared to the rest of the industry. I build relationships. I don't care about blasting 500 people, I genuinely don't care about that. So one of the things that I don't I personally wouldn't do, I've done that before, it works to a degree. So yeah, organic outreach person is what I would look for.

‍

Dave Pancham  

So I have a question here. So because you're, you said, like, you know, make sure you know how to do it first before you go ahead and essentially, outsource it right. If I'm a brand owner, and I've you know, built my brand to a certain level and I've been doing Facebook ads. And I'm like, well, I need I heard Google's a good idea to do or Tik Tok is a good idea to do. How would you suggest the approach something that they actually don't know in that kind of scenario for hiring?

‍

Omer  

Great question. What I would do, and I've done this already myself for my company is I would hire a coach that can instead of spending money on paying someone to help me figure it out, because you don't know how can you know if someone is good on the interview? Like I literally tell people, someone, someone, we have someone right now I'm like, I need a Google PPC media buyer. I'm like, great. How much do you know about it? He's like, I know nothing. So I'm like, How can you interview someone confidently and know that they're not full of shit? That's the biggest thing. Interviews is, the way I see interviews is how much full of shit are they? Because if they're really bullshit, I can't hire them. But if they're a little bit of bullshit, but they're mostly knowledge and they're actually real, then I can actually hire them. So what I would do instead of allocating money and resources, I would actually allocate it towards hiring, I would allocate resources towards a coach, some program, someone that can teach me about Google ads, or I would, I would, I would outsource it and learn from them, and then bring it in house. But don't bring something in house that you have no familiarity with whatsoever. For instance, I'll give you as an example. We're doing that with TikTok. I'm about to start running TikTok ads, which by the way, I don't know if you guys know I just found this yesterday. You can't advertise in Tiktok ads in South America or Central America, so we were trying to run ads to get, you know, virtual assistants scholars. And you literally cannot advertise anywhere in Central and South America, which is wild.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

I didn't know that.

‍

Omer  

I didn't know that either until yesterday, so but you can advertise in Europe and US obviously in other places. So we're gonna, we're gonna do that. But anyways, instead of me being like yo, Christian, go figured out who's my like Operation/media buyer. I brought on someone that has already experience, like spend some time with him 30 minutes to an hour. And if we need to spend more time with him, I'll pay him so we both can learn and figure it out. So that's what I would do, Dave, because I know you did that. And I know Alex has done that too. Instead of trying to figure out shit by yourself, invest into a coach, invest into a program, learn it, or just fully outsource it. And until you feel comfortable that you have the SOPs, the systems dialed in, then you want to bring someone in.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, no, that makes sense. Because I mean, what you're doing every time you hire someone, right, it's a little bit of an experiment hoping that they work out and they do a good job. If you're hiring someone that has a responsibility and a job description and skill set, that is something that you have no idea what it is, it's a bigger experiment for you, because you have to take a little bit more time to figure out if it's working or not. And you're very uneducated. So by kind of getting a better gauge of how well someone's doing based on what you already know, you know, it mitigates that experiment. So that makes sense?

‍

Omer  

No 100%.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

So, you know, VA's, virtual assistants, especially in the marketing world, have a little bit of like a negative connotation, or at least they did early on, I would say, in my circle, a little bit less nowadays, but especially like a brand owner listening. If never hired a VA. This is maybe this show was the first time there ever hearing the term virtual assistant, VA, how can you eliminate the negative connotation for them? 

‍

Omer  

That's a great question. The reason is negative.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

And what is it? Like, let's explain like what exactly is a virtual assistant and like why it's called that, right?

‍

Omer  

A virtual assistant is someone that works for your company that is literally placed outside of your local area. You guys want to hear something crazy? We are virtual assistants. I'm a virtual assistant, you're virtual assistant, Dave, you're a virtual assistant. You are, it's just we don't want to look at it like that. I'm CEO, I'm sales. You're a virtual assistant, you're working virtually. anyone that doesn't go to an office and works remote as a virtual assistant. The term, the reason people have this stigma with virtual assistant is because there's two reasons. Number one, there are virtual assistants that are in it purely because of the money, they don't actually want to grow. Just like there are Americans that are working at a, you know, bagging groceries working McDonald's didn't want to be there. They're just there for the money. That's definitely one part. The other part why virtual assistants are not good is because the CEOs, the companies, they have no idea how to treat virtual assistants compared treating American employees because there is a culture shock, right people in the Philippines, and people in Ecuador and people in Massachusetts, they're different. We're different humans, we're almost like, it's almost feels like it's a different world. So what a virtual assistant is, is, it's someone that you can delegate your work for, for significantly less of the price of an American employee with no benefits. Normally, if you're hiring American employee, let's just say let's stick with employees, they're expecting probably 15 to $25 an hour, bare minimum bare minimum, which is not a lot, plus benefits, plus time off rice plus PTO. And then on top of that, you don't know you're hoping that they're going to do a great job. That's the hope. We're in the Philippines, in South America, they're already starting to train them and start to allocate resources to make them great virtual assistants, they have schools, they have teachers, they have all these programs that are allocating all this time to help them become really great virtual assistants based on what Americans want, which for us is number one, showing up on time, right, showing up, showing up on time. Number two, getting the work done. Number three, submitting reports. And number four, making sure that you're consistent, right. Nor one day can work, one day can't work, one day, like, consistency. And the crazy part is these virtual assistants in the Philippines for instance, let's say on average I see people paying them two to $3 an hour, which I don't, I pay them a little bit more, on average person in the Philippines makes right around the two to $300 per month. So if you can pay them $400, $500, $600, for us, they start at $600, $700 a month. I have teams I have a team that makes, you know, team members that make $1000 to $2,000 a month. That is to them is a lot of money that's basically like in the US making five to 6k per month which is not, again not, You're not balling but you can buy a house, you can buy a car. And the best part is what I've noticed because I've worked with American employees and I've worked with VA's now. People in the Philippines especially I'm gonna point them out are the most loyal people ever. If you find the right team members, they will work on the weekends they will work extra hours for you. They will be so thankful for you. I'll give you guys an example. This actually is such a honestly my biggest flex of the year and I can flex a lot of shit. I can flex.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

We see you in the tank top man.

‍

Omer  

I can flex a lot of shit. But this is my, my biggest flex is one of my team members is actually getting married tomorrow. And I paid for like a lot of his wedding. I like sponsored a lot of his wedding. And it was actually like one of the best for me was one of the best investments, the amount of work that he's put in for me the amount of stuff that he's battled for me, and how much he's helped the company because he's he's basically our connector. He's the one that connects clients with the virtual assistants and filtering. And he's does, he does a lot of hard work. It made me so freaking happy and just just seeing him being able to celebrate the happiest day of his life, or the worst day of his life. Just being a part of that, you know what I mean? It's incredible. So there's just so loyal, man. And I think a lot of people are in this stage, especially older, right? If you're a brand owner watching this and you're older, your 30s 40s 50s 60s whatever. It was an uncommon 1990s and 2000s to hire someone across the world. That's, that sounded insane. I think this was insane up until 2015, I think 2015, 2016 When we started this world, it's kind of became so we're still so new. We're less than, we're back. We're less than a decade. With virtual assistants, we're so green that TikTok, you can't even advertise. You can't advertise to central South America on the number one social media platform right now. TikTok. That's how new we are. So in context, if you can find awesome people, great workers, loyal people, and you don't have to immediately hire them. But I put everybody in a trial everybody that comes work for me. They're on trial one month, I'm like, You're not, you're hired. I'm going to pay you, but you're on a trial. I don't know if you're gonna be here for the long run. If you are you're gonna get paid I'm gonna give you so I give you raises bonuses, all that stuff. So I just went on a hole just there. But because I'm so passionate about like, making sure people get that term, like VA out of there like Oh, VAs, I don't want to work with VA's. It's like, Alright, good luck.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

No, that's really good. No, I mean, there's there's a lot of things in there that you point out that people don't realize, right, when they're when they're approaching this, Dave, you you have more experience in this field than I do. And you have a more personal connection with a lot of our employees in the in the Philippines, but you you know, some of the things that you're talking about, like you've experienced yourself, too, right?

‍

Dave Pancham  

Oh, 100%, you know, and I know, I completely I had the stigma around virtual assistant before, like, when I first came in, because my experience from a few years, like maybe like five years ago, perception was like somebody from India that didn't speak good English. And I'm like, how am I going to trust this kind of person to come in and do quality work. And I think it's like when you when you've seen that kind of thing happen, or you've experienced that or even heard that you're like, I can't go hire somebody overseas to do what I need them to do. Like, I mean, I would imagine like some of the easiest places where a brand owner can really plug in like a virtual assistant is maybe to help with like customer service, maybe updating your updating like your Shopify listings, graphic design. And it's like, if your experience, like the concern can be communication skills, quality of work, you know. So, I think, like, I think one of the first key pieces there is to dispel the truth, like, you know, you can find some people that have the skills to do what I do there. But then how do you feel like, how do people deal with like, we live in a remote world and remote business like a you know, building culture with, like, with a remote business is a big challenge. eCommerce are gonna be like that. How do you deal with the culture differences? Right? How do you create that marriage and that culture there so that the team really dive and you have good people and loyal people for you long term, because another thing that I've also had? Got virtual assistant, trained them up, and like, you know, invested this time and then day one that they are starts and start to work didn't even show up.

‍

Omer  

I think we've all had that. You've been in business long enough, you've had that. But that's why, but here's what I've noticed, I'd rather have that, like go through the first day of onboarding, and then they don't show up day one, then them not showing up month three, when I really need them when we started working a lot more. So actually, like one of the things that I do with my clients now that do this for my own team is I have a really in depth onboarding process. Like it's, It's fucking killer. Like I've created a roadmap with them. I go over core values, I create the scheduling on them. I mean, we're literally sitting there with my team members for two to three hours. And a lot of, I've done this before and some people get scared. They're like, Oh, shit, this is a serious business. And then they don't show up the next day and I'm like, Dude, thank god. Thank god I avoided that mistake now. That's the biggest thing with entrepreneurs, man, especially the level that you guys are at where I'm trying to get to and where we're all trying to get to time is so much more valuable than money. You don't realize that in the beginning,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Again, experiments, right? Like you find out day one on the experiment that is not working. It's better than finding out day 90, you know.

‍

Omer  

Correct. That's the biggest fear that most people have.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

So they brought up a good point, right? So let's say you because you also mentioned Omer An appointment setter. And in my mind, I'm thinking customer support because a lot of brand owners don't want to answer emails don't answer phone calls, right? It's kind of the same old, same old. It's kind of like an FAQ type of thing. For a brand owner that's hiring someone from the Philippines, let's say first, you talked about the the, I guess, negative stigma, one of them was time difference, where you kind of set that down saying they're willing to work pretty much any hour of the day and weekends. So that's one let's talk about like language and dialect and things like that difference. Like that's hard to write. Because, you know, that's, that's a huge key to the job. So how do you how do you address that?

‍

Omer  

Great question. So what we do is every single person submits an application with us, normally takes about 20 to 30 minutes. And on top of that, they submit a video if your application is I've been a VA for 10 years, I have done 1000s of calls per month I, I only want to get paid $4 An hour like it's literally on paper like but then your video is I don't understand what you're saying, immediately you're out. The amount of people that we disqualify from the video is pretty insane. What's funny is I do the same thing with American hirings. I probably do between three to five American hirings per month sales reps, account managers media buyers not much we don't recruit it's they come to me organically I just help one of my friends get a sales job. Same thing, I'm like go fill out this application. It's not as long it's probably a lot shorter than a VA one because I don't need to test you too much but then the video the video is everything to me. But then what we do for our on our end before we present people to my clients is I act we actually interview them ourself because here's what we noticed, it's the craziest shit of all time. One time we had this girl, this is such as true story, this is, this is crazy, this is how I know I've been doing this for a long time. We had this girl send us a video right? Application's perfect, video? Wow! If I send you guys this video of this girl, she wanted an account, she was looking for an appointment setting jobs slash, like, you know, customer service. You'd be like getting on a call with her. This girl practice the video probably for six hours.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

She's like an actress on set, right? Practice the accent.

‍

Omer  

She got on the interview. She didn't speak English.

‍

Dave Pancham  

Wow!!

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Wow!!

‍

Omer  

Speak English. We literally asked her like simple questions like, hey, like, cool. So we see on here like very, like very first question. And she's like, she was shook. She started froze up.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Talking about loyalty, right? They're very loyal.

‍

Omer  

All right. So see, this is why the video is very important. But it's an interview after the with our team to make sure like yo like. And what I tell with my the people that interview are also like virtual assistants in a sense, I tell them that anyone that doesn't have as good English as them. They're not qualified because I literally brought on a team members that have good English, not perfect, but definitely understandable. I would hire them to do calls all that stuff. If it's worse than them, if they're struggling to understand, my clients will, my clients won't, don't want to talk to them as well. Sometimes people don't do videos, they do like just voice recordings, because you don't need them on camera. Personally, I love the video, because I make people look presentable, I can see their energy. Now the thing, here's a huge tip for people that are looking to hire Bas, I have them look. So I had them record a loom video. Then after going through all the questions that I have for that on the video, the last question is go ahead and share your screen, go to speed test.net. And let's see what your internet speed is. So then boom, they show us there and it's been it's three megabytes per second. I'm like, we can't hurt it. We have like a 20 megabytes minimum. So we tech check the internet, we check the energy, we check their vibe. And the thing is, I want people to spend four or five hours spinning the video. I know they don't. But I want them to they could that would be great. So yeah, that's how we check everything live.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

So let's break it down. Right, I'm hiring my first VA go to onlinejobs.ph, which is probably the biggest one that I know of. I'm sure there's more. And I write up my job description I make my job posts, I get applications coming in. Do I email them and say, hey, I'm looking to interview you first, can you email me back a video with this kind of guideline? And this is what I'm looking for? How do you do that?

‍

Omer  

On the application you want to create some barriers already. So there's applications barrier, for instance, experience. Maybe if it's a graphic designer, video editor, their portfolio, right? So depends on what job you're looking for. But it should have barriers. It shouldn't just be name, number, email. It should be barriers throughout the application, which is why it should take them about 20 to 30 minutes to complete. And at the very end, they have to submit a video to a certain email. Right so for instance, for us, it's like careers that you know our email so it's careers@Fava. And I know that this person had to have submitted an application otherwise they there's no way they know what the email is. So then I'm looking at the emails because they've already and match it with us. We're looking at every single person that comes in bla bla bla bla bla, with if I was a CEO application, create barriers on each on each hit, for each thing that you're looking for. Make sure that they submit a video. And then if you have a big team like you guys, for instance, I would have someone on your team vet the people first, like, have them interviewed. It shouldn't be you, Dave or Alex, you guys should not be the first interviews, it should be someone from your team. If you don't have a team, any team members, and it should, will be you. Now, here's something else that we did before the interviewer, we actually start doing a skill test. So it's application, video and skill test, we actually do both a skill test and a personality test, I do DISC assessment, so we can actually learn about them a little bit. And then we do a personalized skill test. So if I'm looking for an appointment set, or I would have to read a script, if I did graphic design, maybe I haven't designed something that I'm working on, right video editing, maybe create a video. It should not take them more than 30 minutes to an hour to complete. If you're spending, it takes them four hours to complete a test, number one, you're going to owe them money because that's four hours of work. And number two, it's a very in depth test for sure. But it that's when you should most miners will hire them. So I think 30 minutes to an hour testing is perfect. Then, once I like their video, once I like once I like their application, their video, skill test, personality test, then I head to the interviews. And normally I interview people two to three times. And then we move into the hiring. So do you guys see this? There's all these barriers. I'm telling you, a lot of these people want jobs, they want careers, they want to make $800 a month 1200. But they're lazy with the easiest stuff. Because this shit is easy. The hard work actually gets started. And you hand them to work and it's to stay loyal to you guys. And that's the hard part. This fits easy. I don't I don't want to I don't want to make it like impossible. I want people to get jobs and careers.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't put it better myself when we hire for certain positions. You know, we have the personality tests, and we have the kind of like real world assessment, we give them like a real world problems relevant to their job, and they submit it. And I'll tell you what, like I tell them, you know, I don't expect you to spend any more than 15 to 30 minutes on this. And you know, the reason we're doing this is like, we want to make sure that you're very like detail oriented. And I tell them like if I can't see that you're detail oriented on this job assessment, how am I supposed to know that you will in the actual real world? and I can't tell you how many people like mess up the actual small details in this thing. I'm like, I can't imagine if I'm like applying for a job and I like get a test. I'm gonna look over that like a million times before I submit it. You know what I mean? So let's just like you said, people are looking for kind of handouts.

‍

Omer  

In our industry, it's like we're moving fast. We constantly upgrade. We talked about this yesterday, what you guys did last year to what you're doing now to what you guys are looking for the future. People have to have an innovation mindset. I don't like to hire robots. This is the biggest thing that a lot of people hire VAs to be robots. If that's the case, don't do a skill test. Don't do an interview. I mean, just hire them off the bat, go to Upwork. And you can find robots. I tell my team when I onboard them. I'm like, Look, the first 90 days, I don't want you to innovate shit, I already have everything dialed in, come in, do the work. After 90 days. Let's start thinking how do we make this job better? How do we and I'll give you an example. I have a girl shout out to Geraldine, she's one of my interviewers. So this past week, she's had a little less interviews on average, I wanted to take 10 interviews, but this week, she's been taking like five to eight. So we're a little slow on the recruiting side. So you know what she's been doing. I even ask her, she went on her TikTok, and she created her own, like, recruiting funnel like, hey, guys, you want to work from home? And I'm like, wow, this is amazing. I didn't ask her. I actually purposely don't want her to do that. Because I want her to be on interviews. But the fact that it's slow, she's innovating. That's a team member I want. Guess what, she's not a robot. That's what I'm looking for. Dave, you were about to say something.

‍

Dave Pancham  

I think you kind of pull it out right there. I think probably where I would go next, I was going to ask is like, let's say, let's, becasue generally a brand owner is not using Omer. And they're trying to do this themselves. And they've gotten that that first hire, maybe it's somebody that is going to manage like customer service for them. How do you feel like, how do you make sure that you get off to the right step? Or at least you quickly figure out? Is this person going to be fit, is going to be the proper fit? How do you properly onboard them? How do they figure out those kinds of things? Like how do you set yourself up for success? And how do you figure out if this person like, is this gonna be a good churn? Or is person is going to last?

‍

Omer  

So that's a great question, what I would do is I would start them slow, I would not overwhelm these people with like 500 calls, blah, blah, blah, I would start them slow. The ultimate goal is when you hire someone you want them to work out, don't set someone up for failure. I think a lot of people hire people, and they hand them over everything off the bat. KPIs are through the roof, all this. Instead of starting slow and increasing it over time, right? Because if that happened to me four years ago, my KPI was five sales a week. I wouldn't be here today. So thank god, they started me slow. Obviously, I went a little too slow. But in general, you can start you can start just starting slow. And then you make the, you tell them on the call, look, you got the job, but we're on a month, we're doing a month trial. what I do actually, I don't actually send people contracts after the month, after the first month. Now I don't recommend doing that. That's something that's worked for me. Some people do contracts, don't do contracts, but actually send you an official contract after the trial after the first month. I know for a fact you're going to be here because I customize my contract for every person, incentives, bonuses, whatever the case is. So start them off slow. And then make sure that they know that they got the job, but they don't officially formally have the job until a month. Because here's, here's why, for me, it's a month, it's it's actually funny, not only do I do this with me, I also do this for my clients. So if you guys were to get a virtual assistant, you have 30 days to figure out if this person is a good fit or not. Because within 30 days, we'll replace them. And I believe that 30 days is more than enough time, right? We're talking about 20 work, we're talking about 20 work days, right? Not including weekends, so enough time to kind of figure those things out. And I like the little things, right? I like people to submit amazing reports. I like to people, I like people, for people to go above and beyond. I like to ask questions. I like for people to think in the job consistently, like make, making them think, and then, and then what I do. Another thing that I do is I do one-on-ones with every single team member. On Fridays, I dedicate basically my entire day to talk to every single team member where we are. Here's where you're at baba, baba, baba, a lot of people don't do that. I didn't do that for the first, you know, six months, I started doing this, like I started this a couple months ago. And I start catching little things. I started catching things that didn't want to say on meetings that they don't put on the report that they're missing. They're like little details. So how do you do that? To answer your question, David, starting slow, number one, increase KPI over time, and tell them that they're on a 30 day trial. Because by the way, you should do this with every team member. Sales reps, account managers, media buyers, doesn't have to be just VAs. Every single person should not, because some people this is crazy, and I'm sure you guys can attest, some people success is just getting the job. Like they go like I got the job. I got the job. When in reality that's like you're one foot in you, all you did is you stepped inside the house. But you're not fully immersed in everything. You don't know everything about the business. You don't know. Practically no, no don't know anything yet. So a lot of people celebrate getting the job. They don't celebrate succeeding in the job, which is really dificult. 

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, great point. Great point. So if, when you're looking at this job application, what are you looking for in the skill set in this skill? Would you call it? Skill assessment?

‍

Omer  

Yeah, skill assessment

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Skill assessment and the DISC assessment. That personality test, or any any personnelity test, specifically for each job. Obviously, it changes but you know, what are you generally looking for?

‍

Omer  

So again, this depends on what job I'm looking for. Right? If I'm looking for an appointment setter, I need someone with a little bit of skills and experience and customer service, and good English and energy. If I need a media buyer, I'm looking for someone that's data driven, knows, understands numbers, and is a little bit more introverted. I don't want to I don't want a media buyer like me, like if you have too much energy, and you're a media buyer. What happened? You should not, you'd like, you're, you're a crazy, you're like a very, like, you're not your typical media buyer. Because most media buyer is a little bit more introverted. They're very data driven. They're very analytical people, where salespeople are more energetic and hype and blah, blah, blah, right. So that's, I would want that more from my appointment setter, I don't want a boring appointment setter, my appointment setter should be fun to talk to, like my both of my interviewing interviewing girls, there, they have such great energy, they're so charismatic, they love they smile, they're just happy. That's what I want from an appointment setter. Graphic designers, media buyers, video editors, I don't really need that too much. And you can be introverted. So I would say that's a skill. But here's something very important that I look for. Depending on the level on my company, I look for people that, do I, do that, do I need someone that's a little bit more experienced and skilled in this position? Or would I rather get someone green and then teach them everything? Because, this is very important, it is way easier, and way less complex to train someone from scratch, than having to retrain someone because they built up bad habits or habits that are not, habits that are just having nothing to do with our company, right? I'm sure you guys can attest. Right? It's a media buyer. And he's, the way he looks at ads and the way he analyzes it, it's so different than you guys. But he's been doing it for two years. Probably not a best fit compared to someone has been doing media buying for six months, super green wants to learn. So I personally like to bring more green people to my company and train them from scratch at the level that we're at. But then you talk to someone like Eddie Maloof, who used to be like that, actually, it's funny, the first few people that I hired for Eddie, he wanted green people, the last few people he's like, dude, they don't have experience of skill. I don't want them, don't even present them to me. So it depends on the level of your company out, let's say hiring and versus, training versus retraining.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

And what about for the DISC assessment?

‍

Omer  

The DISC assessment again, you know, it's funny, I just started using it probably like, three weeks ago before we were doing the 26 personnelity, or 16 personality one and the disc assessments a lot better. I like anyone that's talking to clients, appointment setting to have, to be, I can't remember, I think it's the high green version, which is like leadership and like, I just, there was a girl that submitted this case, I can't remember what hers was. But I remember reading, reading the analysis I'm like, Oh, this is exactly what I'm looking for this position like this. This is the person I need. Versus I had another girl that was, that was going for recruiting and she's more analytical and she's more like data driven. She's an engineer. I'm like, I don't need an engineer, as a recruiter. And he's someone that's like, love talking to people and follow up and Just be,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Just connecting dots. Really?

‍

Omer  

Right, Exactly.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Not too complicated

‍

Omer  

Yeah, next time I'm on here, I'll have a better like an analysis of the DISC assessment because right now I'm just like new with it. And we just started pushing it to all our clients. Because before it was like, this personality, this personality, I was like, why don't we just do the DISC test?

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Have you ever heard of the dark triad? That's one of my favorite. That's a that's one that Tai Lopez's use a lot. That's who introduced me to it essentially tests you for people that are like real red flags, is test for your level of like psychopathy, and narcissism. And like deviousness, which is alien, isn't it? And you know, I when I heard about it, and I was like really getting into personality tests and like starting to essentially have faith in them and start to rely on them for hiring people. I was like, let me give this to my friends because I know my friends pretty well. And you know, some are narcissists. Some are like, just have no empathy. They're psychopaths a little bit, right? Everyone's like has some level of psychopathy, right? You can call someone a psychopath. And they're like a five out of 100. And it's very interesting, like connecting the dots about with the results that you get. And the person's like.

‍

Omer  

You use it for hirings? Is that's the test you use?

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

We use it sometimes. I've used it, I use a lot more in the past than I do now. But it's definitely still a useful thing. And really, honestly, it comes down to how long you want the interview process to be or the the application process because we already do A a specific, like, we do the hexaco score, which is similar to disc, but it tests for like specific, like conscientiousness and you know, things like that alertness. So we use that one, and we use the skill test. So if you had an another personality test, right, we're talking 30, 35. Yeah, it's just a lot of stuff. So it really comes down to how long you want the whole thing to be. So if I had, I'm not a psychopath. So I don't want to make people think,

‍

Omer  

I remember taking a couple years ago, Alex and I remember thinking, man, if I'm really a psychopath, I'm gonna lie on these on this test. Because I'm not gonna, I'm gonna, if I'm really a psychopath, like I'm, something's wrong me. I'm gonna not do it the way you think. Because you don't want me to know you don't want the, you're sure of a psychopath. Right? So I'm trying to get a job. So that's why I like that kind of test. kind of freaky. I remember reading some of the questions and like,

‍

Dave Pancham  

I think you're just, you're too smart that you think you would do that. I think that's the,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

case. I think that's the case for any personality test, like anybody can fake their personality on a test. So that's why that's why there you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket and say, this personality test is exactly like my scorecard, right? It doesn't make sense.

‍

Omer  

Correct yes, why they still test comes in. That's what the interview process makes sense. That's why it's like, it needs to be a process. Hire slow, fire fast. That's like the, that's the motto.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, I like, Yeah, exactly. Same thing. So. And it's funny for the psychopathy thing. I've heard stories of people like hiring or giving the test out to, you know, candidates, and they're very honest with their answers. And they get like a 90 out of 100 on psychopathy, and like, the employers, like this person probably killed somebody. So you know, it can, it can weed out the red flags, if those people are honest. And, you know, whatever, I'm sure. So onto the interview process. People that have never hired hire people for are very nervous to get into an interview and, you know, ask questions and evaluate and take notes and, you know, make a good representation of themselves and the company that they're, you know, starting. Give us some advice for the brand owners listening like, Alright, I want to get my store going, and I want to hire people, but like, I'm so nervous for my first interview.

‍

Omer  

I'm going to do something better for you guys. If people have listened this far, I'm going to give you the top, I want to say, I think it's almost like 40 to 50 questions that I have for the interviews, that you should definitely ask them every single interview. Obviously, it's long 40 to 50 questions a lot, but definitely there's like 10 or 20 that are really good. Because you know, you want to find background, but there's some questions that make you think, because one of the questions that I ask them every single interview is if you were to win a lottery tomorrow, right? $20 million, boom in your bank, what is the first, like two to three things that you're buying? What do you do with that money? And that immediately, instead of like, What's your why? Like, no, no, here's 20, $30 million. You're set. What are you doing? What is where are you going? What are you buying where you're at? That immediately tells me what their ultimate motivation is, right? They're like, oh, I want to escape to Australia live by myself in the jungle. I'm like, Okay, well, that's interesting. I never not hire someone because of that. But now I'm like, this person's motivation is a little, little cray cray, but,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

I like that. I like that.

‍

Dave Pancham  

That's a great question. Yeah,

‍

Omer  

It doesn't and it does. It's not direct, right. So I'm asking, what is your why right. Tell me what motivates you, right? That's a little bit more direct. And people can fake that really easily. But, you know, ask the question that you asked. It's a little less indirect. I don't know why you're asking it. 100% But when I used to wasted call chiropractors and I used to ask them like, last question. Why do you want to grow your practice? What Woody and I felt cringy. I remember cringing every time I asked that and I was like, How do I ask that question? And I literally used to ask them If you scaled your practice, you hit your numbers, you're at 100k month. And like, what's next? What do you do with all that money? Do you buy Lamborghini, Ferrari? Do you buy mansions? So I started like pointing them to where most people would go? And they're like, no, no man, I would go buy out first I pay my college debt, then I would buy a house in Beverly Hills bubble, but whatever they say, right? And I'm like, oh, that's your motivation. That's like, it's like the most indirect way of asking what your motivation is. But it's so direct at the same time. You don't I mean, it's like that kind of question. So like, that's a question I always ask people. I also ask them this is an interesting question is like who? Personally? Who's the smartest person you know? And why? It's another really good question. Because I'm like figuring out who isn't important. Who's someone they value in their life? Right? Because the smartest person is someone that you genuinely, I'm not saying who's smarter, like, oh, Joe Rogan, like I don't fucking know Joe Rogan, I don't know if he's smart. Like, who's the smartest person I know? And I'd have to answer that question myself to where I'm like sitting there. And I love making them think on interviews, and I think a lot of people make the interviewer wait too job-specific, like, tell me about your media buying experience? And how much Aspen did you buy? And what would you do with this asset? ba ba ba ba. You should definitely do, please do that. But also make it challenging, make it fun, make it more personalizing, make it you know, you're, you're gonna get to know these people indirectly going to work with them. If you're hiring someone, how I see it is what's the past that first month, I want you to be with me, as long as I'm in business. As long as I'm doing this, I want you to be with me unless something drastic happens, and I shut down. So I don't see that happening. I want you to be with me for years to come. That means that I need to be your family and I want to get to know you like how do I help you. And you get to open up people, this is what I've noticed you you have people will open up to you, by two ways. Number one they trust you. That's first and foremost. And number two is by asking them very specific questions, but in your week in unique ways, right, like the lottery question, like the smartest person question. There's a bunch of there's a bunch of other questions. And they'll start opening up to you in ways that most people don't like instead of who's the most important person in your life. Right? If you ask them who's the who's the smartest person, that's probably if someone's super important to them, right? So that's just like,

‍

Omer  

How do you, how do you handle them asking you back? Like, why are you asking me these questions? Right, random.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

They get defensive and stuff.

‍

Omer  

I've never had that happen ever. If they were asking me that, I'd be like, well, to be honest with you. Your skills, and your experience mattered to me a lot. But I want to get to know you on a deeper level, if we're going to work together, especially since you're on the other side of the world. I have to trust you with my life. And you have to trust me with your life. So I'm asking you because I want to get to know you, your family. And if we work together, for the long run, I really want to be a part of your life just like you need to be, I want you to be a part of my life. That's how that's that's that's how it is. But honestly, I've never had anyone asked me, I thought people laugh when they're like, Ah, alright, another one. I've asked this a couple times. It's such a random question. But I'm like, if you were an animal, what animal would you be? And there's, it's so it's so out of the blue. It's so out of the blue. I make my interviews fun. I hate, I've had interviews, I'm sure you guys have had to where I'm sitting there, and it's just a mole. I'm like, fuck, I don't want to work here. And the interview process as the employer you have to, they have to want to work for you man. And I literally had someone yesterday, because it's actually funny, right after our call, our podcast, I had this guy told me yesterday, he's like, I'm looking for a VA, I want them to work. If they break, I don't care how much I don't care what their excuses. If they're break their leg, and they have fever, they can work from home, I'll pay in $3 an hour, blah, blah, all this stuff. I'm like, I'm literally I'm like, bro, you're, you would be the worst client ever.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

They need the dark triad test. I'm like, Dude, I hope that whoever you find, doesn't end up killing themselves. And I'm not even kidding. Because you're, you're strict. And you would be such a horrible person to work for, where I want to be the, I want to be the bus that number one, we get shit done, we get results for our client, because that actually matters. But number two, it's a fun environment. I mean, we make each other laugh, and we trust each other. That's how you build the lang, our best months and our best times and the best companies that have worked for where those companies, it was not the military militant company, which I know also works. But for me, I know my personality, I need a little mix. I need like, let's get down to some one priority. But number two, let's talk a little bit fun. Let me get to know you. And that's an interview.

‍

Dave Pancham  

I think one of the places where people go wrong is that they don't look at a virtual assistant as being a human.

‍

Omer  

Correct.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Right.

‍

Dave Pancham  

Yeah.

‍

Omer  

Number one,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Just a robot across the world.

‍

Omer  

Correct.

‍

Dave Pancham  

And I feel, I feel like I've heard you do this as well. But you know, we have, I don't, like we have. I don't know it's 12 maybe 15 people on our team that are from the Philippines. But nobody has the title virtual assistant. And I think it's important thing to do is give people ownership of a position like you are a media buyer, Operations Assistant, lead nurture. And I think, I think that's huge, but like, how do you, how do you apply that? I'm sure you apply that and how do you, this affect things like affect a person's outlook from that person's hiring and how that person affect their outlook on their position?

‍

Omer  

That's a great question. I love giving people titles, because what I've noticed in those third-world countries, sometimes the title means more to them than getting paid more. Some people rather be, not all the time, but I've seen this happen with my company and other companies, they would rather be the head of connections, or the head of interviewing, and get paid $800 a month versus a virtual assistant making $1,000 a month. That's not all the time. I'm not saying that's for every person. Some people don't give a shit about their title. But I think make giving them a title is 100% real. And it's funny, like, my company's name is FAVA, VA, right? So the VA is in there, right? Virtual assistants. And the reason I kept it because I was kind of going back and forth on it last year, and I was thinking like, maybe I should change it, I want to, but in my head, I'm like, Dude, I want to change the meaning of a virtual assistant. Because in the end of the day, everyone that works remotes a virtual assistant, we just are. We just don't want to claim Dave, CEO, Alex, CMO, like whatever the because we we everybody has a little ego, you don't want to be called the VA someone's like, if they introduce you and ATL event, this is Alex my VA. You'll be like what! The term has been condescending for so long. And again, like I said, there's two people to blame. There's the VA is that our robots. Unfortunately, their English is not good enough. They're not experienced enough. And they just want they don't want to grow. I don't want that. I don't want that person. But then we both have people on our team that live in the Philippines live in South America, that they just want to grow. They want to be part of the company, they want to make more money. They want to figure out how do they advance in their career. They want to be proud. They want to tell people what they do. And be proud of it. How many people do you guys know in your life? They're almost like embarrassed about what they do. I've met a lot of people. And I always used to be one of those people. When I was driving for Uber and Lyft. I was super embarrassing, like drive for Uber knots, like five. Here's what I do. And Dave, you're like, oh shit if we weren't 150 clients is like a blessing. So I think a lot of those people, they want to have a title, they want to be there. This is why the onboarding call, it's so important to dive into that about their position, and how they can level up. Look, here's where you are now. Here's if everything works out. Well we do what we do you do what you do, here's what our next three months look like, here's what the next six months look like, here's what by the end of the year, here's a year from now what it looks like I start planting those seeds and given them the advancements. And then what I've noticed as well, once you've passed that stage is a lot of these virtual assistants, a lot of these, you know people from all over the world, they want to lead people in the end of the day. And the other day didn't one of the most important things that I think all of us want to do. And we have to do this in order to level up is we have to be able to lead. Us leading the teams, leading our clients leading on sales calls we are the people that are the best leaders in the world are the most successful people. Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, they're leaders, no matter what, no matter what anybody thinks of them. And I'm telling you one of the most powerful things you guys can do. You guys, whoever's listening, is these people that are virtual assistants, these people that are your call center is have them lead once they've earned it. And that's the that for me, that's the advance payment. That's how you that's how you raise yourself from $800 to $1,000, is when I hire someone, and I don't have to sit there and train them all day, when I know that you're going to take care of them, and the next person is going to take care of them. Real leaders, breed leaders. That's the truth, in my opinion, really just briefly, does that sound like me leaving and I have to do all the trainings, and all the onboarding and all this, and this is, and this. That's not, that's, that's just me, I'm just my own employee at that point. So in order for me to level up, I need to, you need to and this is one of the things I tell everybody, when you hire someone, make sure that especially the level, when you're in between a zero to 100k per month, make sure you're bringing on people with leadership characteristics, right, potentially, maybe they're not freaking Jeff Bezos leader right now. But they have the potential to lead a team. And I have done a really good job at this at finding those people as well as like onboarding them for myself. So yeah, are there would you say?

‍

Dave Pancham  

Are there any of your fun questions that you ask that help you kind of figure out does this person have leadership ability or the right mindset?

‍

Omer  

Yeah, I mean, a lot of times, I've had questions that I don't tell my head of I have questions on there. And I've asked questions around the line of like, if you have a department under you, right, what do you feel like? What do you feel like is necessary in order to make sure that they are getting things done? Right, like so sometimes it's very direct, sometimes that make it less seem like, Okay, if we go back to like the mid 1920s, and you were the you were the president of the country, of President of this country? What are some of the things that you feel like you would do like things like that? I want to breed? I want to figure out what is their leadership mentality, because I believe every human on the planet has leadership potential every single day, even the homeless person across the street. Some of these homeless people lead other homeless people they're like, yo, let's, look how do we get more money?

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

That's a fact. Absolutely, I've seen it.

‍

Omer  

So if you if you can, if you can really exploit that in the best way not exploit that in a bad way, exploit in the best way and Bring it out of them. Because the way us as leaders and CEOs and CMOs, and also, the way we do that, is by giving people the opportunity, right? And I plant the seed all what I do. I'm a professional seed planter, literally, I plant seeds, with my team, with my clients with with whoever it is. And if we do that at a high level, and you do that consistently, and you set the expectation, man, it's a complete game changer, especially for these people that live in these third world countries. So would you say you never, you shouldn't ever really have to teach leadership? Obviously, you can teach. I think, leadership, I think that dealerships definitely be taught. They think they should be taught, I think,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Oh, really?

‍

Omer  

Yeah, I think that you need, I think someone can possess the skills of a leader, but they don't know how to. They don't know how to show it. They don't know how to like, really, they need Jesus, he's help. So sometimes every single person maybe has a differently, a different perspective. Some people are really good leading on the call, right? But then when it comes to following up with their team, they're not very good at it. And vice versa. Some people are not so good on leading on the call, and they're quiet, more introverted. But then when it's following up with a, with following up with a team and getting the data, they're really good at it. So you have to be able, as a CEO, you have to combine the both because we have to be good at we have to be the best leader on our team, by far right, in order for us to lead everybody. So yeah, I just think that we used to do leadership training, working with Joel, I still do leadership training my team like I think it's definitely important.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Sure, fair enough. So I want to pivot a little bit, you know, in the, in the topic of hiring people and looking for VAs and growing your company from one employee to multiple, what is something that you've seen that people spend time and money on that they shouldn't?

‍

Omer  

Definitely, I would say timewise doing the hiring themself. Unless you're brand new, if you guys pass me someone today, like a gym owner, and he's never looked for a VA in his life, doesn't know where to start. And has, has the time, I would tell him, yo, here's the resources. This is what I would do. If I was you. I literally did this one on sales. Because I actually want people to try it. Because if you try and you succeed, man, God bless the people. My best clients are people that tried it, and it didn't do it. So I'd say doing it themselves. Doing yourself is the biggest time waster, especially if you tried it didn't work out or you don't know where to start, or, and most importantly, you don't have the time. Because if you're trying to spend more time doing it, then it becomes a mess. And then as far as money, I would money wise, I would definitely not spend money on does so this is this the answer? There are recruiting companies out there that you pay them, that, and they pay the VAs. So the way it works for me is that you guys pay a setup fee. And then there's an insurance but then you pay for the, this VA, the recruit, whatever they're working for you. Yep, there are companies that kind of screw over the VAs, in my opinion, where you pay them $1,000 a month, and then they pay, they pay the VA three to $400 a month. And then they keep $600. In my opinion, that's super messed up. So if you are going to do that you should take less than a VA, because you're just doing you're getting recurring. So that's where I would, I would stay away from. And the thing is, they don't really know what the VA is making. So sometimes they'll be like, oh, yeah, the VA is making $700. But then in reality, they make $300. And I've seen that that's the most disgusting thing in the world, you're, you're effing over people in a third world country. So I would say stay away from those types of companies, unless you know that for sure. And you know that they're credible. But there, I believe there are a lot of companies out there that charge 1000 to $3,000 a month, and they pay a very small fraction of that, you know, $3 an hour and they keep the majority of that. So that's,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Where, whereas whereas someone like you, you're just a one time fee that doesn't, No money gets taken away from the VA. So you're still paying someone to help you find talent, but you're paying one upfront fee and you're not, you know, taking money out of the VAs pocket.

‍

Omer  

Zero, honestly went back and forth. I mean, literally, if I was to do that from the beginning, unless say close all these clients, we would be at eight figures. So it's not about like, Oh, I'm gonna be an eight figures and be a multimillionaire like I also don't want to screw over these VAs that are in third world countries that are already like, I live in Colombia  like it's, this is a poor country, you know, relatively speaking if you guys look outside my house right now you would not think so. But overall out of my house, most people here are not doing so well and taking any money away from them is just disgusting in my opinion. So you know, if you do that, just be careful with those companies because some of them do do that. That's a very common thing as industry.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Okay, cool. What would you say, Omer, is your in your career, your biggest failure and what would you say you learn from that experience?

‍

Omer  

I actually, I looked at that question earlier. That was one of the questions I was like, What's my biggest failure? Because I don't regret shit. Honestly, I've done a lot of shit like, I could have invested in Bitcoin back in 2020, 30k I had, I had money 2020 during the crash, I could have put 30k into bitcoin lost all of it. I would have still been okay. So that sucked. But I will say man, the biggest failure honestly, that was not my biggest that was the biggest like, I can't believe it. But biggest failure id not, is not trusting the person that ended up changing my whole life, Marcos from day one, because we bought into Tai Lopez's course, winter of 2016, February. So a few months later, he moved to Colorado and he gave me the opportunity to go with him and start this whole thing with him. And I just did. I just didn't, I felt so bad. I was already living in his house, I was paid, barely paying rent, like it was like $200 a month. I just felt like I didn't want to leech, continued leech on him, where I should have leeched on him, if he gave me the opportunity and then paid him back over time. Because man, God knows me it could have been us three. And I mean, who knows what would've, what would have happened, maybe none of this would have happened and I had to move back. But I wish I took the risk earlier. That's my biggest regret. I only took it, you know, a year and a half later. So it's not like 17 years later, I'm 45 years old. But I wish I took the risk earlier. And some people are listening without thinking about taking the risk. And I'm telling you the, I was listening to Tony Robbins on Jay Shetty podcast the other day, and he said, pain is like ounces of shit. Regret is like pounds of shit. And then, like pain, you know, the pain of failing, it's there, but you're gonna let it go. But the regret of not walking up to the beautiful girl you see the store, of not starting the business, and not taking the leap of faith, of not travelling. That honestly, that is the worst. So obviously, I don't regret it. Things worked out. But if I wished I made the leap. If I could have, I would have made the leap of faith even earlier, obviously.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

And how old were you? I mean, especially if you're young, right? You want to take more risk when you're younger. You need to lose at that point.

‍

Omer  

I was, I was, I was about to turn 22. I believe I was 21, 22. So I was young. I don't know. I mean, dude, I was, I live. One of my roommates here is 19 years old, and didn't go to school, moved to Colombia and is doing solar sales. And I'm like, Dude, if you just stick to this, you're gonna surprise, everybody. So solar sales is huge. And you're working with us, you see us, we're grinding every day, we're going to the gym, all that stuff like, wow, I felt like 19 Dude, I'm literally embarrassed to tell him what I was doing. It's, like, actually quite embarrassing. So it's a different time. You know, we talked about almost 10 years ago, but it is what it is. So.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, like you said, you're 22 When you're if you're in your 20s or 30s, maybe even like low 40s. Right, like, take, take risks, make the calculated but take calculated risks.

‍

Omer  

For sure, man. You know, we talked about the butterfly effect yesterday. And I tell people like I was, I'm always wondering actually curious by I mean yours. But yeah, we talked about business wise. But for me, the biggest butterfly effect was my mom winning the green card when I was, like 10 years old and us moving from the US, from Israel to the US. Because most people most Jews, he has made me the US. It's like they started their own company. And they went on visa. And this is, that's not the case with us. We might, my dad works as an Uber driver. My mom was in like little office like they were not like a rich, successful ultra successful family. So the biggest Butterfly Effect is literally her winning the lottery to move to the US. Because if I probably would still be in Israel right now just finishing army a few years ago and not trying to figure out life. I mean, that's insane to think about, then I came to the US and in my head, I'm like, Okay, now I'm taking all the risks you already made the biggest risk I will take, I'm gonna take all the risks for us to live the best life possible because a lot of people that move to the US like my family, that's like the American Dream is just moving to the estimate in reality, moving to the US is the stepping stone. What you should do is make yourself a better life in the US, like, now you have and they didn't do that. So that's on me like that. It's pressures on me to make that happen for them, you know, to live out their last, you know, couple of decades, the best way possible. So yeah.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

That's awesome, man. So for the people listening as we begin to wrap up here, where can people find you get in touch with you follow you all your contact stuff?

‍

Omer  

Hi, it's funny. I have the most unique name, I don't know, you guys know any other Omer blochs out there? So o m e r B l o c h on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok started a YouTube channel. I was actually thinking about changing my last name like a few years ago and I'm like, why would I do that nickname? I'm gonna, my SEO, my SEO is like, incredible now is going to be better. Like, I have to think business is nothing business is the thing like, oh, I want to I want it to be Omer Johnson and be IJ, like re, re, re, rediscover the name OJ because everybody thinks you know so I'm like, I'm going to be the better OJ and I realized that,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

The Juice.

‍

Omer  

I realized that it's a lot of work. I'm way too white, not atheltic enough. And there's just no way I would switch to OJ. So OJ was a dead dream. But on the real so Omer Bloch, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. People can message me, you know, I interact with other people, Facebook and Instagram are my primary platforms for sure.

‍

Omer  

Cool, awesome. Well, link in the description below. Last question, Omer. We asked every guest this at the end of the show. If you could sit in a room with a bunch of mentors once every morning to help guide you, listen to them give you advice, who would be in that room that can be alive or dead? It can be multiple people too.

‍

Omer  

Alright, so I'll do. I've already thought I've already thought about this for a while. Because for me, it's the people that I love in each, like, facet of life that they're in a sense. So number one would be Joe Rogan, I am, I've been an avid listener since, like 2015, 2016 changed my entire perception of life. I mean, I literally credit Joe Rogan, like my dad was my dad from my from zero to like, 16, 17. Then 18,  19, 20, I needed someone that's like, like, just more, just has a different life. And you have at some point, you have to listen to people that have what you want, right. And I noticed that early on, because you know, join network marketing and kind of got it done to me. So Joe Rogan would definitely be one of them. The other one, I would say, is the grandfather of personal development, which would be Jim Rohn. Love that guy actually have him as my senior quote, funny enough. 2014 "formal education makes you a living, self education makes you a fortune." So that's another one. And then I would do this person, but only his prime. So from 20 From 2012 to 2000, like 16 Anything after that, I don't want to be associated with them too much. And that's Conor McGregor, so he's the one that really got me into UFC. Loving MMA, and,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

I couldn't agree more with that observation.

‍

Omer  

But what's crazy is, I was not a big UFC fan. I used to like WWE and football, football. I'm a huge NFL guy. And then I started watching him in 2015. The very first paid preview I ever bought is his fight with Chad Mendes where he became a champ, all that stuff. And then the documentary job, or later on and I became the biggest Conor McGregor fan of all time. Last couple years. Obviously, it's kind of been embarrassing to talk about him, but his, like his prime, what he did in his prime to go from being a plumber to not having a job to making it to the UFC to going on an amazing run and you know, finishing basically everyone and making millions of dollars all the way to like the whiskey right? Where I would stop it is right before the Khabib fight. Right up to the Khabib fight is where I would stop it because the Floyd Mayweather I loved, I knew he's gonna lose nobody, you know, but I love that he made 100 million dollars. But the Khabib is one he got cringy he became a little drunk, like jealous brat. And I just, I just couldn't I couldn't stand anymore. And then up until that I wouldn't even say like even past that when he made the sale. I don't know if you guys know you'd be sold his whiskey last year. Actually popped up yet last? Yes. It was exactly a year from yesterday when they announced the point or two days ago, from a year ago. And he sold it for $20 million. So to me, I was like, holy shit. This is incredible. I mean, he did everything was supposed to. So for me, it's an athlete, personal development, and podcaster. Those are like the three people and imagine a room with me, Conor McGregor, Jim Rohn and Joe Rogan, we're either, we're either going to be doing DMT and like the talking about the craziest shit, or preach us or Conor McGregor is gonna teach us how to fight like it'd be the craziest mix.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah. You get some valuable advice there. Dude, it's crazy when you said 2012, 2016. So many names went through my mind really quickly. I'm like, Who is he going to? Like? I'm thinking like, I'm thinking like Aaron Hernandez. Like, or like Harvey Weinstein or something like who went absolutely evil towards the end there.

‍

Omer  

I've watched their documentaries, they're not people I would ever want to associate with myself with ever my entire life. And it's kind of disgusting. But yeah, 2012, 2016 is a weird it's a weird a year like Jeffrey. Well, that was before the Epstein murder. Or like,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Who had the most drastic downfall of their career?

‍

Omer  

Before I go, What were y'all what are your all's? Who are your people? Like?

‍

Dave Pancham  

No one's asked us this on the show.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, no, I'll go first if you want to second because I think about this all the time. Mark Cuban, probably my favourite entrepreneur ever. I just love everything that comes out of that guy's mouth. Love. Tai Lopez. Of course. He's the reason I'm on this call today. And he's the reason I'm in marketing. Yeah. Gary Vee for sure. Logic the rapper, like one of my most influential people in my entire life. Love him love. Yeah, we've talked about him. I'm here. Yeah, yeah, I forgot someone for me. But after I go after you, I'm gonna go. I would say probably Stephen Hawking would be in there. I haven't. I'm a huge space guy, right RocketCart, Mission Control. But also like, I'm just fascinated by that guy's philosophies and outlooks on life. Those are a couple of mine.

‍

Omer  

Because I'm a huge music fan. I can't believe I forgot this person. And for me, it's Russ. So I'm gonna add that.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

I knew you're gonna say that.

‍

Omer  

Big Russ fan. Actually love Logic as well, too. He, you know, moving to Montana being, by himself. I, I Love, love, love, love logic. Big fan. So that's, that's great. What about you Dave?

‍

Dave Pancham  

So I'm just gonna pick a few that come to mind right now thinking about it a spot on. I feel like I just have to because I've always been a fan. I've read his book and all that stuff is Elon Musk. I think he's just a fascinating individual. He's accomplished with and the other side of that, probably a bit of a darker one is probably Bezos. You know, Jeff Bezos is just incredible entrepreneur. Um, and those are awesome ones to have. But at the same time, these guys are like multi multi billionaires and like, I don't even know if the advice they can even give me can be really applicable. So I would want someone I also someone that's just not that far ahead from where we are, which I feel like that probably is like an Alex Hormozi even though I've, you know. So, you know, like it's you want someone that can understand what you're doing and see what you don't see in your own position. You know,

‍

Omer  

Very true.

‍

Dave Pancham  

You know, it's like can Elon Musk tell us about like how to like build brands and agencies gay probably can but I'm like, we're not Tesla like not the same like,

‍

Omer  

I will say you can do, you can have him tweet one thing like, Hey, guys, if you're a gym owner what he does with crypto, one tweet about Dogecoin one tweet about Sheba Inu you're fucking making 1000s of dollars.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, for better or worse, man. He's definitely one of the most influential people on the planet right now.

‍

Omer  

Yeah, I think he is the most influential person on the planet. Like, number one, especially. It's crazy, because I'm on Twitter. I've been on Twitter for the last six months and the engagement that he gets. I mean, he's getting 50 to 100,000 retweets.

‍

Dave Pancham  

Did you see his tweet yesterday?

‍

Omer  

I don't know if between,

‍

Dave Pancham  

He talking about buying Coca Cola and putting the cocaine back in.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, I mean, he made a meme about Bill Gates like three days ago. And it got like 2 million likes

‍

Omer  

The voterone, the voter one. Yeah, yeah. No, he's ridiculous, most influential person in the world. I hope that he takes it to the next level. I'm scared that he's gonna make it kind of Elon Twitter, which was, that's what I'm hoping I agree. But either way, I love what he does. And I'm a huge fan. So it makes sense Dave, like, him and Alex Hormozi so like anyone else?

‍

Dave Pancham  

Yeah, I'll add one other one who actually I don't follow a tremendous amount. But anytime I watch a clip of him, I'm like, This guy is very, very well rounded. A very, very rational thinker. Would be Jordan Peterson.

‍

Dave Pancham  

He doesn't feel like he's a very biassed person. Very, very, like Rational thinker. I really

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

He is a deep guy. Yeah, super deep.

‍

Dave Pancham  

Yeah. I have one more and it's escaping me. Oh, I'm Kobe.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

I was gonna say I forgot. Kobe, Kobe. Kobe for sure. Yeah, I was telling Dave a couple months ago. Kobe is the only celebrity death in my entire life that I've cried over like, genuinely,

‍

Dave Pancham  

Personally, never actually felt the impact. That was really sad. I thought,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

I still can't believe it. To this day honest.

‍

Omer  

I was literally, thinking this is fake, this is fake I, this is fake .

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

I was thinking about Kobe this morning. And I was like, Wait, he's dead. Like it's crazy. Yeah. The other one I would add? Go ahead.

‍

Omer  

No, because you forget, like because he just retired and started getting more into public before. He wasn't like may 2015, 2014. He was so focused on basketball. But like his last couple years was like, he was in the public. He was doing interviews and he was out there and and you for you're like, how does he cope in a while? And then it's like, so yeah, no, it's yeah, it's the,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Other one I would add that I forgot. It's kind of a meme now. But I've been saying it for years. So I get credit. Will Smith. I think I think Will Smith is very influential, and he's just, even more than an actor and an entertainer for me. So.

‍

Omer  

Yeah, no, I agree. I'll finish off with with this as a full circle. Because I, I feel like he's so interesting. I don't know how much value he would add to my life. But he said, Will Smith and it popped in my head and it's DiCaprio. I feel like he nobody knows him. Like who is DiCaprio? Like, he doesn't do interviews. He's so on his own. But he's successful. I don't know how he would add value to me getting more clients or VAs, but I definitely know that he's super interesting. And he has, like one of the greatest actors ever, as is Will Smith. You know, if it's unfortunate that he's doing what he did, but it is what it is. So yeah, this is one hopefully, hopefully they listen, yo, DiCaprio. If you want to do a podcast, let me know like,

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

Yeah, talking about climate change or something.

‍

Omer  

Yeah, for sure.

‍

Alex Ivanoff  

That'd be funny. Yeah. All right. Well, I appreciate you flipping the question on us and making us think a little bit but yeah, great answers. Omer, great podcast, we, this was so much fun. I had a blast. I learned so much. I was gonna interrupt you a couple times. Say like, I gotta take notes on this. I'm definitely gonna go watch the recording back and make sure I take some notes because hiring is one of my favourite things to do. It's my favourite thing to do in business. And I'm always trying to get better at it. And it's just, it's so fun and to do a good job at it and attract great talent. I think every entrepreneur listening should enjoy that because that's building a business is all about really, so definitely take notes from Omer go follow him, check out his, his podcast, his show, check out FAVA and you know, subscribe to our podcast and listen for some more episodes just like this one. So, thank you again, Omer.

‍