EP 12: Where is the Marketing Space Going Post IOS 14?

Transcript

Where is the Marketing Space Going Post IOS 14?

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Alex Ivanoff

All right, welcome to the next episode of Michigan troll. I am your host, Alex Ivanoff. And today I have a really awesome guest super excited to have you on. This is Garrett Gray from Digital Growth Labs. He's the founder and CEO and super excited to have you on and talk data and talk about what you do and what Digital Growth Labs does. So feel free to introduce yourself and yeah, let's let's hear it.

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, thanks for having me on, Alex. And as you mentioned, I'm with Digital Growth Labs. It's kind of the latest progression in my kind of journey of where I started digital marketing 2018, 2017 and funny enough, Love him or hate him, Tai Lopez is how I kind of got into this space. And actually, yeah, so got his SMMA course, I think that was 2017 went through that, kind of had aspirations of having my own digital agency, I saw the power of kind of like, okay, digital marketing is not going anywhere, going anywhere, which is kind of why Tai started that whole thing anyway, was like, you know, this is not going away, businesses will need this going forward. And you know, you kind of can get in on the ground floor. And he was right. I mean, to his credit, he was 100% right. As these things typically do, my path is kind of winding . I initially thought I was gonna go after gyms, because fitness is something I enjoy doing. And I thought, you know, combining that with marketing, and what I knew would be a fun thing to do. But I found out pretty quickly that gyms don't actually have a dedicated ad budget, they just kind of sporadically will have challenges, and they'll live off the referrals and things like that for months. So it was hard to get retainers, stuff like that. So I ended up cutting my teeth in B2B wholesale printing for a company I worked for, throughout college, and the boss was a close friend and mentor of mine. And he had grown really well organically for about 20 years since he started the business.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah.

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Garrett Gray

And he knew that I, you know, had finished the Tai course and gone through all that. And he said, you know, he agreed to let me start using those strategies and things inside the business. Because at the time, they'd really relied on a lot of organic products, there was no marketing department, no marketing strategy to think of, or to speak up. And that was kind of the beginning of that. And it's pretty cool. They're actually moving into a new 30,000 sq ft kind of state-of-the-arc building probably next month. And we keep in touch. I moved on from them about about a year and a half, two years ago. But we keep in touch. And it's pretty cool to see that we laid the foundation for the marketing back then 2018, 2019. Well, really, it's before that, actually. And yes, it's really cool to see them continue to grow. And then I got into data and got in with a company that was doing identity resolution. He saw the value of the data, because he was a Google Ads partner like early on, he owned what they call a DSP demand side platform. So basically, he sat on Google's Ad Exchange. And he began to build what they call an identity graph. Now the largest in the world that would have an identity graph would be the apples, the Facebook's the Googles of the world. But he is part of the largest, he owns the largest privately owned database identity graph in the US. And I think the last I heard, I think it's trekking around, it's just short of 300 million, right around 300 million US consumers.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah.

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Garrett Gray

And the identity graph is something that we use to help enrich data and determine, you know, when someone visits a website, hey, that's Alex, that's Garrett, Susie, Catherine, so on and so forth. Because we've collected that data, he started building that identity graph. It's probably close to 15 years ago now. So lots of data. And because he's sat on the the Google Ad Exchange for so long, he's basically got like, synced up with their data so he can verify off of Google IDs and Facebook IDs and all sorts of things in the identity graph, and I'm sure we can get into that a little later on. But that's what we're doing now. We're using the identity graph. We're using CDP , a customer data platform. And what we're doing is we're piping the data that's needed into Facebook and other ad platforms. And so essentially, it's helping and fixing the issues brought on by IOS 14.5 last April, and we're seeing some really great results with it. And I think that's what I do spend a lot of my time now when I speak with folks is just kind of educating them on the value of their first party data and where everything's going, you know, if you, if you run ads online, you're probably familiar, if you're not, your media buyers, certainly familiar with the fact that third party cookies will be going away.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah.

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Garrett Gray

Now Google keeps kicking the can down the road on that. But eventually, third party cookies will be no more. And we're just, we're educating and we're equipping clients with the ability to kind of unlock and store and then leverage their first party data. Like, that's basically the elevator pitch, we're using that first party data to improve the data that's fed back into ad platforms, which eventually results in better ad ROI, better conversions, better conversion metrics, lower cost per acquisition, cost per order, whatever metrics are important to you, they will be improved by using the systems and the and the processes we have in place.

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Alex Ivanoff

It's awesome, man. So for the people that like have never really heard this. And when I met you, I did not know of any of this stuff, right? I knew that there were, you know, a lot of data collection mechanisms and sources all around the country in so many different companies, of course, and I'm sure everyone is aware of it. But using this is so so let me ask like, this is an identity graph of almost 300 million people. And it's built on, like you said, over 15 years of data, based on all these different sources. Is this data now, is this data anonymized? Or is it you know, because I know like if you have an audience on Facebook, or if you have an audience on your Shopify store, for example, it gives you anonymized data that doesn't tell you exactly everything. How are you able to view that data?

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, so in the early days, this was something we had to be careful of, because laws governing B2B versus B2C were different, as you can imagine, you're in a B2B environment, it's business a business. So there's, it's less strenuous. But if you're in consumers, you have to be careful about, you know, you can't send an SMS blast to 2000 people because you got their contact information from the graph. Right, we had to make that very clear to clients. And we were, early on, we were in the B2B space a lot. And I transitioned to B2C just because we spoke about this before and other conversations. eCommerce marketing folks get the value of what we're doing a little bit more than B2B, you know, I was always kind of surprised to have these conversations with B2B, they've had a hard time, kind of transitioning into this new world, B2B is a little bit more stuck in their ways. Whereas if you're in D2C, and eCom, you have to be constantly on the cutting edge of what's going on, or you're gonna see, you know, you're gonna see your profits go down, you're your ads, your head stuff, so he's not going to is complete, you have to be testing constantly, and that sort of thing. So I got off on a tangent, but okay, so your initial question was what?

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Alex Ivanoff

The anonymous aspect of the data, so if I'm just a user of the technology, and I'm using it for use cases, but like, can I actually see the impact?

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Garrett Gray

Well, that's the beautiful thing about where we're at now, right? So we, there are no, like, five, six years ago, when we were doing this, we would, we could basically, of what a use case might look like is okay, we would give a B2B websites, where we'd have a B2B company, and we'd hand them their website visitors, right? Then we'd send it to him like, you know, an Excel spreadsheet or something. So say, Alex Ivanoff, and your email, and your position, your LinkedIn URL, things like that, right. And as technology has gotten better, and these different technologies and tools can communicate with each other better, now it's really cool because, you know, we're compliant where we need to be as far as security and things like that with the data. And the great thing is, the tools we're using are just there. They're keeping clients safe from getting in any kind of legal issues because it is a deanonymizer. But we're using, we're using language that all the ad platforms know So like, for instance, part of the identity graph is like a SHA-256 code is used to identify when you show up to any ad platform. So any of those ad platforms know, SHA-256, with a bunch of letters and string and numbers together randomly we know that's out. Yeah, right. But if you're looking at that, you can't tell that. And then another thing, too, is first party data, as long as you have security policies in place on your website.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah.

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Garrett Gray

So I mean, I'm sure everyone has seen this at some point. And where you have a cookie policy, as long as people are understanding of like, okay, we're collecting information if you visit our website, and we're not going to resell it or anything, but we are using it for our own kind of edification for a business, like, whether we want to have you on, you know, we're storing your email, so we can reach out to you later, because, you know, like, Adidas does a really good job of doing this. I recently was on their website, was looking at a pair of shoes, and decided not to get them. And then I think like 24 hours later, I got an email from them saying, you know, don't forget about whatever it was I was looking at, right. So that would be a use case of using that technology where, you know, as long as you say, Yeah, it's cool. I know what your cookie policy is, no problem, then they're free to use that information, because it's, it's first party. So first party, second party, third party, all that stuff kind of gets convoluted. But the easiest way to think about this as well, we consider first party is basically, you know, if someone's opted into your newsletter, your email, of course, that you know, people are pretty familiar with that. We also consider people to visit your website, first party data. And like I said, with a cookie policy in place, you're covered, it's all good. And then it's just a matter of like, okay, we we now have, like this database, we're collecting of all the people that have visited our website, and they've, they've done certain actions on the website, they've added to cart, but they didn't purchase or things like this, that we're able to collect and store and then we can segment them out. However we need to, and then send them out to ad platforms to target the top, middle and bottom of the funnel based on their activity.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah, okay, so we're getting into a couple of different use cases here, where I mean, the first one, like we said, ad targeting is going to get a little bit more specific, based on the data that you're feeding Facebook, Google, whatever ad platform. But you know, using emails as well, is that you gave an example with Adidas. I think that's a really interesting example. So breaking it down. So you are already subscribed to Adidas and email, you go to their website, you opt into their cookie policy, you start looking at a product, maybe you add to cart you don't check out. Adidas is using this technology or some sort of technology, whatever it is, that's very similar to identity graph, and they are segmenting out your web presence on their website, and knowing and matching it up with your identity on the identity graph. And they're able to email you even though, of course, you're already subscribed, they can email us specifically without needing a separate campaign. Based on your action on the website. That's super powerful. Is that all correct?

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, I mean, you said it pretty much. Exactly. And I'll give you another use case, because I looked over my desk and I saw a flier for this company right here. And I'm hoping I can get them. Hopefully somebody from this company will see. Let's see.

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Alex Ivanoff

What is it?

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Garrett Gray

Can you read that? I don't know how you say that word. E R G A TTA.

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Alex Ivanoff

Ergatta?

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Garrett Gray

And because it's, it's, yeah, so they're a rowing company. So, post COVID, you had all these Home Fitness things cropped up, man, like just all kinds of things because people couldn't go to the gym, they couldn't get out lock downs and things like that. So a lot of these companies got a fair amount of venture capital funding. But what's cool about those guys are, and like I said, I'd love to speak with somebody over there because they're already doing some things that I think are very cool with their retargeting because I visited their website, because I was doing kind of I was doing research on them to kind of understand like, Okay, what kind of traffic do they get? And then another thing I like to do is, if I visit their website, and I get retargeted, by an ad of theirs, especially on Facebook, I can screenshot that and be like, Hey, I know you're running Facebook ads, I can help you kind of thing, right. That's, that was kind of the impetus for me, kind of I was doing research on people I could reach out to about our services. And I think about a week later, I got that in the mail. I didn't. I'm not on their newsletter or anything. So they're using it.

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Alex Ivanoff

Indirect email, like you don't have to opt into a mail list.

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, so the point of this whole thing is like people don't really like. I think if people aren't familiar with this space, they feel a little bit kind of Big Brother icky about it, right? And I understand that completely. And I feel like I'm a little desensitized, because I've been in this space for so long. And learn from the guy that built the identity graph. And I understood where this technology was going way before people, even in marketing knew what was going on. But people should just know that, for better or for worse, this is the world we live in. And like, if you're not leveraging this technology in some way, you're, you're kind of fighting with one arm behind your back basically.

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Alex Ivanoff

Get with the times, yeah, especially as a brand. As a consumer, you can, you can, you have a little bit more choice. And I think the world's evolving a little bit ethically lawfully, socially, like, in terms of how we challenge the standards here, which is, I think, somewhat of a good thing, but, and you're able to take that and make that choice in terms of you know, what data you give away, or what platforms you sign up to, or whatever, as a consumer, but as a brand, it's super important that you just get with the times like you have to be educated on this stuff. And that's why I'm super happy to have you on today. But yeah, so that's, that's a very interesting use case where, you know, direct mail, like, literally, like I throw out my direct mail, every three days, I get my mailbox, there's four magazines, three handouts from premium brands, two letters from the bank trying to get you signed up for a credit card, right? There's a million things in there.

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Garrett Gray

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

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Alex Ivanoff

And I'm always just tossing it because it's just I feel like a waste of time and paper. But if I see something in there, it's like, wait, I just checked this brand out. How do they usually mean, right? But I'd be thinking, how do they know? It might just think it's a coincidence? Now I'm gonna like to look at it. And if it's a good offer, right, I'm now super interested.

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, well, I think it speaks to, you go back to, I don't think I mean, you're always going to have that small pocket of people that just, they're miserable. They don't want to be happy, whatever they're going to find something to complain about. But I would say by and large consumers, if it's something they're interested in, and they've researched, they don't mind you showing them an ad for it, or educating them more about your product or your service, or sending them a mailer out because they've shown interest in it. And people like, we live in such a distracted age that people attention really is the currency, right? So your people are five seconds away from clicking from your product, to go back to YouTube, or go back to Facebook and watch cat videos, you know what I mean? Like, that's, that's the world we live in. So as a marketer, and in eCommerce, and just brands in general that rely on online, which is pretty much everyone now, you have to have these tools, kind of in your toolbox to be able to re-engage people and say, hey, hey, remember us? You showed some interest in us, but you know, we know you get busy, or whatever? And it's like, oh, yeah, I did want to, I did want to look more into that, that exercise equipment, or that, that, that hat or that purse, or whatever it is that you were looking at, right?

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Alex Ivanoff

Yep. And so we talked about getting an insight on, you know, this person visited this page, this person's this far in my, you know, conversion funnel, what have you, what other insights might have run take away from this identity graph in this data? Like, I'm sure there's, you know, if you have 300 million users, there's definitely, I'm sure hundreds of different data points that are insightful for your site and insightful for your brand.

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, so I think we're at a point where, and this is going to depend on B2B, I'll go back there for just a second. B2B is a little bit of a different animal, especially if you're, if you're, if you're on a, if you're using, a B2B company, a lot of times will rely heavily on STRs and BDRs. is And if people don't, aren't familiar with that acronym is just sales development reps, business development reps, okay? And what is the value of knowing that, Hey, someone was on your website, looking at this specific service or product of yours, and they're the, let's say, your ideal client is a CFO, like maybe you sell accounting and accounting SaaS or something, right? Well, that's a very powerful data point when they know, Hey, Alex, the CFO of XYZ Corp was on our website, and they were looking at our accounting software. Like that's a very powerful thing for you to have a salesperson reach out to them, because you're going to have their LinkedIn URL and things like that. So that's a perfect use case of B2B where you can't exactly do that in B2C. But what you can and do and B2C is, like you said, when you use the graph and you're using the customer data platform that we use, you're, you're collecting, you're basically putting everyone into a big database, okay? This everybody came to our website, we're storing them in the platform, okay? Now we want to know, okay, what they do on the website? Could they go look at this collection? Let's say you're a garment company, you're an eCommerce and you sell clothing, okay? And let's say it's, you know, women's clothing. And you have a specific collection of dresses. Okay, it's named something, right? Well, would it be pretty powerful to know, okay, over the last 60, 90 days, these are all the people that visited those collections, right?

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah.

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And then you know, exactly how to structure your ads, you know, what they were looking at, you know, and you can even get even more granular like, Okay, give me all the people that looked at the collection, added to cart, but didn't purchase, like, you've got all these kinds of different ways where, once you're collecting the data, you can kind of say, Okay, what's important for us right now, like, what's its seasonality, or anything like that, in eCommerce, you just kind of, it just gives you more freedom to retarget people the way you need to, without, really, the way to think about it like this is up until now. We've been if you're a marketer, you're kind of renting your data from ad platforms, you're renting it from Google, you're renting it from Facebook, right? Well, the IOS 14.5 update happens. And Facebook advertisers are kind of like, you know, the tide went out. And, and then when everybody was swimming naked, you know, that's all that kind of old saying, right? And it was like, Oh, crap, what are we? What are we going to do? And I have these conversations on a weekly basis with people that are like, yeah, we're, we're a year and a half removed from the IOS thing. And we're still struggling, getting our conversions back to where they were pre-IOS. And what people have to understand is like, when you rely heavily on these platforms, which is what they want, then you're kind of at the mercy of the whims of what they decide, like Google changes. You know, people in SEO know this with Google, all too well, like they change one thing about the algorithm, and then all of a sudden, your things are not ranking anymore, right? You did all this work for SEO. Same thing happens with these ad platforms. And Apple kind of they were the way I describe it to people is there's a data war going on, kind of and I say that word I don't. I always question whether or not to use that word, because of the political climate.

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Alex Ivanoff

I agree, like, I mean, when you have trillion-dollar companies going at each other, right? Yeah, pretty expensive.

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Garrett Gray

But I mean, I really don't, I don't, I don't know of a better analogy than that's what's going on in Apple's IOS 14.5 was kind of the first shot across the bow in like, okay, Apple's like, basically boxing Facebook out, they're like, We don't want you having our users data. And what's funny about IOS, the IOS update, shortly after that, Apple, people probably noticed, they went heavy on security, and like, we're protecting you and that sort of thing. And it's like, if you're me, you can see through that you're like, you want, you want to use your data for yourself, you don't want to share it with Facebook, you don't want to share it with Google. Now, Google was in a better position after IOS 14.5. Because just because of the sheer amount of data they have, because their Google, but Facebook was kind of boxed out. Because like, I think it was like 98% of IOS users elected to not be tracked across their apps. Okay, well, what happens to a machine learning algorithm, when you take away 98% of the data it was receiving? Ask a Facebook advertiser, they know right? So that's what we're doing. And we're, we're seeing conversion metrics improve, because we're fixing that underlying issue of data. And yeah, I don't even I'm trying to remember what the initial we're talking about use cases

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Alex Ivanoff

Well, overall insight like what other what other data points can you pull like aside from just like alright, let's let's use it as a use case for advertising, you know, at certain points in the funnel or just overall awareness and direct mail, email, whatever it is, but like, what other data points can we pull in terms of insights? What can we learn?

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Garrett Gray

Well, I would say I gave them the instance in B2B And I would say that's probably the most powerful use case I've seen because now you can reach out to that person. And you know, like, that's the CFO, that's the CEO, whatever. But in eCom, I think the individual data points are less relevant. Like, because what happens is, at least where our focus is right now is we want to work with folks that rely heavily on paid acquisition in some form or fashion. It's even better if they allocate, you know, 15k+ per month on Facebook, that means they haven't given up on the platform, they haven't moved on to next shiny object, they, they still think they still know that their users or their their ideal clients are on Facebook, they're just having a hard time getting the conversions back to where they were IOS 14.5. And really what we're doing, it's less about like, oh, I mean, it's cool to talk about like, Okay, well, we have all these data points, like, we know that this is, you know, this is Alex, and we've got three emails on him.

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And here's his physical mailing address, and all this kind of stuff, and they have their place. But I would say our main focus right now is just, like, just give the data back to the app platforms, and let them do their thing like that. They're the best at finding your, your audience, you just got to help them out, especially, especially Facebook. And that's kind of what we're doing. We're, we're stopping the bleeding of the data, plugging those holes, and then we're filling the pipes back up, that are going back to Facebook, and saying, okay, here are the users that are on our website, our landing pages, and they're doing these actions. And we want to build lookalike audiences off these people. And we want to fix how they match quality scores, which is basically just a metric on which Facebook says, Hey, this is the quality of the data that we're receiving from your Shopify store, your WooCommerce store, whatever. And the quality of the data kind of can be all over the place. And I think people don't understand. They think that like the conversion API aspect of you know, that direct conversion API, from Shopify to Facebook, for example, is just going to fix all their woes. And it's, it doesn't, it's better than it was, you know, right after IOS, but it didn't fix the problem fully.

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And that's kind of where we come right, doesn't it? Well, one thing is they don't have Facebook, specifically, they do not have the ability to identify a I think it's an FPB, which is a unique identifier that basically is a Facebook ID. So basically, we can pass back those Facebook IDs directly to Facebook, of all your website users. And say, and then Facebook goes, Oh, we know who that is. But the Shopify conversion API doesn't have that ability. Yeah, they don't, there's not the capabilities not there and WooCommerce across the board. So that would be one. So it's like an email address or something, right?

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And one thing that I'd say, we get confused with attribution tools all the time. I had to explain to people you know, I'm not, you know, I Hyros and Triple Wale, North beam, all those guys, they have their place, their value and kind of, but think about it like this, they're an attribution tool. We're an audience tool, an audience solution. Okay. Two different things. Is it valuable to know from an attribution tool? Like, okay, our ad dollars are, our ad dollars are most profitable on this ad channel. Of course, you know, if you're, allocating your ad budget is something you always have to kind of be tracking and testing and refining to know where you're going to get the most ROI from your ad efforts. Correct. Like, I mean, that's, and I would never, I would never tell anyone otherwise. But they don't have the ability to kind of engineer and activate audiences inside of ad platforms. They just don't, that's not that's not the problem they're trying to solve. Now, some of them will get slick with their wording, and they'll make you think they can do that. But they're not doing the same thing that we're doing.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah, it makes sense. There's a lot to talk about here because you also touched on the Apple stuff and Facebook and it's a very interesting conversation. Shouldn't and maybe we'll get into it a little bit in terms of where we're going. But one thing I want to ask is, is this. So does this identity graph require a certain level of traffic that can cause this? Is this applicable for larger brands or and smaller brands?

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, absolutely. So in terms of the identity graph, the best way to describe it to people is, so you're mentioning small to large brands, right? It's really irrelevant. It's gonna depend on your use case, are you B2B or B2C. But really, the identity graph is like a spreadsheet in the cloud. And you've got, your first column is going to be first name, last name, and then out, those subsequent columns are going to have, you know, these are the amount of emails we have on this person. We may have their email, their phone number, we may have their cell number, LinkedIn URL, position, title, Facebook, ID, Google ID, all these sorts of things that are stored on that, that graph or that spreadsheet in the cloud. And the way you think about it, like this is Alex, you have my website, we call out to the graph, and we say, Hey, do we know who this person is based on whatever we can gather, like your IP address, or your positioning like we're tracking. So one of the things I've been doing for the last year or so is there's another thing, another parameter is called a made. So it's a mobile ID, basically. So they know. They have specific maids that are attributed to different people. And something to understand about the identity graph, it's not a perfect tool, like you can imagine how difficult it is to track and like, because I think it's tracking across like 5 billion URLs. So it's quite an elaborate thing. So it's not a perfect science. But what we can do is typically get enough information on whoever that website visitor was to feed it back into Facebook or Google and let them finish out the puzzle. So like, what I like to do is kind of position it like this. Let's say in order to figure out that this is Alex, the visitor to the website, you need A to E, okay. And we're able to give Facebook, A, B, C, and E. Okay, we pass those data points. And then Facebook goes, Oh, we got D. And then they completed a string. We know who that is. And now we can show ads to that person. So that's kind of the way to think about it, like, the identity graph is not perfect, but it usually can collect and send enough data to these ad platforms where they can do the rest and figure out who these people are.

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Alex Ivanoff

So why isn't Facebook on the platform? Like, I know, Google has its identity graph, like why are they offering this? I mean, everyone's been wondering for about a year and a half now like, hey, what solutions is, are you guys going to come up with here to help us out because like, our money being spent on your platform is not as good as it used to be. And I know that they've been quickly, like, you know, revolutionizing their platform and changing the different campaign types. And, you know, like you said, they made a switch to coverage API, but like, why aren't they offering something like this?

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Garrett Gray

What? It's a great question, man. And honestly, I'm not sure. I mean, I think in Facebook's case, I think it might just be a situation where, I don't know maybe they're, they're too focused on the metaverse or whatever. Like, it's not a priority for them. And they know that people are going to continue to spend ad dollars on their platform, whether or not a truly fixed issue or not. And I think it's one of those things where it's also the beauties of a free market system is you have companies like ourselves that go out and say, Okay, here's a problem. And we can use these tools that we have at our disposal to fix a problem that's regularly occurring for people across, you know, whatever sector niche that you're dealing with, right. So. And as far as Google, Google was less affected by IOS just because of the volume of data they have. So Google has been less reliant on the fact of like, because everybody, I've talked to that run, and that's another thing too, a lot of people have kind of opted into.

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Okay, well, we're just going to take our ad dollars and spend it on YouTube or Google. Right. And we've actually had, I've had conversations with people that are back to your question about like, when or why are they not building a solution? I don't know. But I do know what they're telling people is we haven't had conversations with Facebook, like platinum add partners, and they've got like a dedicated, you know, meta rep or whatever. And they're like, yeah, go out and find third party data providers, because, you know, that's going to be your best bet to fix your conversion issues on the platform for the foreseeable future. So, you know, I don't really know, to be honest, it's kind of a, it is a little bit mind boggling, because it's like, okay, well, if you fix this for people, then conventional wisdom would think, okay, more people are going to spend, because I forget the number but that they, when Facebook announced one of their earnings, it might have been the first earnings after IOS or like to last from IOS. Yeah,because their aspirin was way down. And I mean, it was understandable. Right. So it's a great question that I don't really know the answer to. Yeah, I think you'd have to, you'd have to be friends with, with Zuckerberg to know.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah, it varied. And you mentioned like, they might be just focused on hardware, which takes us back to the conversation like apples. It seems like Facebook had the social aspect and the data collection, but didn't have the hardware. And they're working on the hardware, while Apple had the hardware, but not the social aspect and the data collection for the atoms, right? They didn't have the platform. So now there, it seems like you said, they're telling us Oh, this is a privacy and data thing and a user first thing, while at the same time, they're ramping up their ad platform. Exactly. Oh, it feels like you know, watch what they do, not what they say. But I love apples at the end of the day. It's a great company. But yeah, I think they're both agreeable trying to it's just a it's just the nature of the beast like these are $2-trillion companies that are trying to just with their jockeying for position without without breaking any trust laws, just try and push each other out of business, which is fair enough. One of the things that you mentioned is also owning your data versus renting it. So this is obviously super important. Like when you use an identity graph, you're owning it, you're not, this is all yours, like it doesn't belong to anybody else. Is that correct?

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Garrett Gray

Right. Well, and I think it's it's key to kind of distinguish this identity graph is kind of the, it is a force multiplier to what we do, but the real tool that we're using the customer data platform, that's where the that's where the I think most people should focus their attention going forward. Because whether or not you can access an identity graph or not, the CDP will, it's going to make your life a lot easier, especially if you're relying on digital acquisition via paid ads. Okay. So I think it's important to think about the identity graph, and the CDP are kind of like peanut butter and jelly like they were, they're good together. But some people might just like a jelly sandwich. Or they might just like a peanut butter sandwich, right? So the CDP is really the database tool we're using. So the CDP is storing that data. So think about it like this. Someone visits the website, we store everything we have on that person inside of the CDP. And then like I said earlier, once you've collected that data, and let's say you want to get granular about, okay, we have this full pool of people that we have gathered, but we want to do, you know, all the people to add to cart in the last 30 days, so we can build a lookalike audience off that. Okay, fine. That's a perfect use case. Now, where the identity graph comes in is it's enriching the data.

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So the CDP is communicating back and forth with the identity graph and saying, Okay, these are the parameters that we gathered on this website, visitor. What else can you tell us about this person so we can fill in those holes? So the idea is we're building these kinds of 360 customer profiles inside of the CDP. And we're using all of the data inside of the customer or the identity graph to enrich that data. So the CDP on itself may go, Okay, this is user XYZ, but we don't know who their net is, we don't know their name. We only have their IP address and one other parameter. So and then you send it off to the identity graph and the identity graph goes Oh, Oh, we got you. Yeah. This is this person's name. This is their Facebook ID. This is their Google ID. So it's a it's a, it's working in tandem kind of thing.

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Alex Ivanoff

Okay, interesting. And we also talked about, you alluded to this earlier with Google kicking the can down the road seems like every six months, we're getting a headline, oh, Chrome is eventually going to disable third party cookies. And I think we've been hearing this since like, I don't know, 2019, or something maybe even earlier. Seems like it's been a while. And I just saw recently, I think it was in September, they announced it was going to be 2024. Eventually, regardless, is going to happen. So what So basically, Google Chrome, which is the largest browser, by user base in the world, I think by far, is going to be getting rid of third party cookies, which, you know, for everyone that we were just talking about, like you go to a website, kinda like the GDPR banner at the bottom, it's like, often third party cookies, you're already naturally going to have some cookies, you're also going to have, you know, data stored on it. So like, when you log into a website, right, or when you go to a website, you're already automatically logged in, there's all different types of ways that your brain stores information, what is it that is actually going away? And how is it gonna change? And why is it that Digital Growth Labs is not affected?

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Garrett Gray

Well, we're not affected, because what we're doing is we're essentially giving ownership and control to clients who have their own data. Alright, so whereas third party cookies, or relying on third parties, just indifferent, like that's kind of a, it's almost like a nebulous term at this point. Like, there's a lot of what exactly falls underneath that, but what I can tell you is, your first party data is yours. And there's nothing that Apple can do about it, right? So basically, what I'm, I'm trying to educate, and I'm educating people with, on this fact, whether or not they do business with us, it's like, moving forward, if you're not leveraging your first party data, you are going to be at a great disadvantage, right? So that's the first thing I try to get people to understand if I have a, you know, if we're having like an introductory call, or someone reaches out to me on Twitter, or LinkedIn, or whatever, and I was like, Hey, I'm happy to kind of show you what we're doing.

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But whether or not we do business together, this is the future, this is what you need to be thinking about. Because if you're not, you don't have ownership and control of your data, then you are at the whims of Apple, Google, Facebook, whoever, right. So the idea is, once you take ownership and control of your data, and you learn how to leverage it, then now you're kind of platform agnostic. So this goes back to the attribution tools. Okay, um, I would never tell anybody, you know, stop using Hyros, especially if they see value in it. But it's like, okay, now you've started to harness and use the power of your first party data. Okay, now you can say, okay, hairos will tell you, Well, this is where we're making the most money on this ad platform.

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So you're you have the ability to be platform agnostic, and, and deploy your audiences wherever you want. Whereas before, Facebook wouldn't let you communicate your data, you can send an audience from Facebook, Google into YouTube. Right? Okay, well, now you're like, that's fine. I have my own audiences inside of the CDP enriched by the identity graph. And we can send it out to whatever app platforms we feel like, because we know where we get the most, we get the most positive ROI.

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Alex Ivanoff

And so that's not reliant on Chrome allowing cookie storage and cookie tracking at all. Nice, interesting. So what is this classified? And then as then, like, in terms of, so I guess my question is, right. If I have a site online, you go to my site, you're going through a browser, if that browser, can that browser completely cut off what I track from you?

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Garrett Gray

I don't, okay, I'll give you an example. Let's say you have a Shopify store, and you came to that store via Chrome. Okay, well, I don't Google doesn't have their jurisdiction ends when you land on someone's URL. Like it's, they just helped you find the URL. Once you click on the URL, you're now inside of a Shopify ecosystem, not a Google ecosystem, right? So it's it. I mean, third party cookies, whether they be like Chrome extensions and things like that. Yeah, sure that that could those are going to take a hit? Yeah. But your website visitors? I mean, I haven't heard. I mean, there's always you never want to speculate on where we could be 10 years from now. But I haven't heard of a situation in the foreseeable future. Where you're, your website visitors aren't your data to use as long as you are in the confines of whatever the laws are.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah, that makes sense.

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Garrett Gray

 Right? Yep. Yeah. Think about it like this. It's kind of like, your website, in a way is almost like your property. So like, if you had your house sitting on a lot, and you have your privacy fence up, right? It's kind of like, okay, people were surfing the web, and they went into Google, and they put in, you know, whatever the search was that ended up on your website? Well, it's like, say, they walked into your backyard or some.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. So I think we've learned a lot here in terms of the future, because it's, like you said, there's gonna be a lot of changes, there's already been a lot of changes in the past, I don't know, five to seven years. Where do you like, do you have an opinion or a thesis on what the vision is on, not only just for, I guess, one for Digital Growth Labs, but to like, where the data and marketing ecosystem goes?

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Garrett Gray

Well, I'd say, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I really think it just comes down to educating people on the importance of understanding the power of your first party data. And what is possible once you start to collect it. And you can spice it up, however you want to send, because we talk a lot about ad platforms. But we can use the CDP to do a lot of things like you can, you can integrate it directly with Klaviyo. So let's say you wanted to retarget people via your email list, based on an action that was done on the website that is stored inside of the CDP, we can do that as well. So it's just a matter of taking ownership and control of your data. Like, I think that's the simplest way to say, like, for for the last, really since digital marketing, Inception, marketers have relied on ad platforms to do their targeting.

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They've rented their data from them, all that sort of thing. And as these as technology progresses and advances you, you have these ebbs and flows. But I'd say we're at a point now where we're at a crossroads where the marketers that start to store and leverage their first party data, we'll be the ones that decide to do that. sooner, the better. I like to tell people, the ones that do that today will be the winners tomorrow. Like, it's, it's going to be one of those things where, once again, you're doing yourself a disservice you're fighting with one arm behind your back whatever analogy you want to use. If you're not storing and leveraging your first party data, you're Yeah, but what's

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Alex Ivanoff

the vision for digital worth labs? Like do you eventually want to work with a lot of bigger brands? Do you want to continuously innovate on the technology?

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Garrett Gray

Well, I'd say for me, my data partners, we have training and things like that, where we stay abreast on kind of where what's the latest with the identity graph? What's the latest with the CDP? What, what are the best practices that we're seeing across the platform with like, how people are leveraging the data and different app platforms and what's working best, right, so we're always going to try to stay on the cutting edge of that. But as far as like the company itself, I My vision has always been to just educate people on the power of, you know, what we're doing whether or not they decide to do business with us or not, that's fine. I just I like to at least get the word out there, because it's what I would like, it's what I'd like for someone to do for me. And, and as far as like, we can work with anyone and ecom. But I do think that we provide the most value to people that are spending at least 15k a month on Facebook. And Google will become it's hard to say where we're gonna go with Google's ad network. Now I know what we're doing does help match rates and things like that across YouTube and display and all that kind of stuff inside the Google Ads network. So there is value there but like I said, at the top of the call Facebook's seen the most value from what we're doing just because of how hard it was in post IOS. So to answer your question, as long as people have a decent amount of traffic, and they're allocating that, that amount of money to Facebook, we can help like, and I'm not going to, I guess I'd say on a personal level, like I showed you that flier earlier, I'd love to work with you know, fitness brands, just because it's a it's a passion of mine. I think it'd be really cool to work with was I'm trying to remember that one that LeBrons got a commercial with one of these brands where it's the mirror that's like on the wall.

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Alex Ivanoff

It's just called Mirror.

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Garrett Gray

Have you seen this? Is it okay? Yeah, yeah, there is one there is one called mirror but I thought there was. So starts with a T. Oh, man, I'm blanking on a blanket. But anyway, there's a lot of those that cropped up because of COVID Yeah, for sure. Like got VC funding. And like yeah, there's the you got rowers you've got the ones that go to the wall with the mirror where they've got resistance built in where that's really cool. And then what else I've seen are ones that are really cool with boxing. Boxing at home, like a little boxing kid that comes to you and you can do training. And then obviously peloton but peloton has had its ups and downs. Yeah, just given the business models tough. Like I had a friend of mine that was excited. She got her bike and all that good stuff. But it was like they were nickel and diming her with, you know, the subscription fee. So I think they'll have to figure that out. But I think the at home fitness stuff. It's probably not going anywhere. I still think there's probably a faction of people that are just, they don't I mean, I still see the occasional person walking around with the mask on. It just is what it is. And you know, I don't fault people for having kind of, you never know what people's individual health is like or you know, they maybe they're caring for someone that's immune compromised, you just don't ever know. You don't want to assume so. But some people just prefer to work out at home. At least until

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Alex Ivanoff

better, I guess. Yeah.

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, exactly. That's true. Yeah. Whether or not they feel a certain way about catching COVID or going to the gym around people that might have COVID You're right. Some people would prefer to just say, Hey, we're going to the next room, knock out a workout and then get back to work, especially with so many people working from home. So

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Alex Ivanoff

yeah, it was one of them. Definitely, I didn't really ever work out from home, maybe like an eight minute ABS type thing. Maybe go on the treadmill in the corner. But like, you know, I was always in the gym, or I was always training and I played hockey. So I was on the ice a lot. And then right over hits, and I'm, you know, cranking out reps and sets on the bands in my living room. And then I got used to it. And even when gyms opened up like I was going back to the gym, I was also hitting some home workouts and some people just Yeah, I mean, you have trends, chin trends have changed some people's behaviors permanently and as a trend, right. And in terms of interesting, yeah, so that's very cool. I'm very excited to see, you know, what kind of brands you have to work with, you know, where the future data goes. What would you say is the biggest challenge you're seeing now with the data platform? Or? I mean, are you just really looking at trying to work as many brands as possible? Or is there another technological challenge?

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Garrett Gray

I would say the biggest challenge is just educating marketing pros in D to C and E comm. Because I found people are open to learning in that space, which is good. But I also think it's hard to cut through the noise, especially if you reach out cold. And that's one of the reasons why I've tried to focus on doing things like jumping on podcast and try to be more active on Twitter and LinkedIn, because I think if you reach out to people cold, I think it's very easy for them to misconstrue us with an attribution tool, I would say that's the biggest hurdle and challenge for us over the last three to six months is kind of getting people to understand like, hey, we don't do we don't solve the same problem as those guys. And you're going to want to at least hear us out on how this is going to help you moving forward, especially if you're continuing to struggle with your Facebook ads, and the ROI that you're seeing there.

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Yeah, I mean, that's, that's really I would say, that's definitely been the biggest hurdle for us. And I also think it's a blessing and a curse, right? So what we're doing is so new that people just don't know about it, which is good. But then, you know, the flip side of that is people don't know about it. So you have to kind of figure out you know, what's that positioning that you can have? Have whether it be you as a personal brand, you know, air quotes that but like, people find you on LinkedIn or Twitter and like, Okay, this guy does XYZ, okay, I get it, or it's just a matter of them coming to your website and saying, Okay, I can understand it. And we and I also were telling you, before we jumped on the recording that our new website should be live, by the time this recording comes out, it should be live. And I think it's going to do a much better job of educating people on things like, who exactly we help, and why it's beneficial.

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Alex Ivanoff

Right, and it's kind of crazy. I was just thinking about this while you're talking. We haven't gotten this far into the end of the podcast, we haven't even talked about, like actual results or case studies that you've gotten for a myriad of different brands. So you know, you've done different things with different brands and seen a lot of results like dropping cost per click, dropping cost per acquisition, things like that. Can you speak to some of those numbers? Maybe not an average, but just overall, like maybe use cases that have resulted in crazy success?

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, so really what we're seeing, and I'll stick with Facebook, because I think that's, that's where, like I said before, most of the pain is still on that platform. People are finding ways to be profitable on YouTube and Google's ad network a little bit more, and even tick more consistently than they are on Facebook. So we're really trying to put a lot of our efforts at least for the foreseeable future, and helping get that right now. Like I said, earlier, in the call, we can help across all ad platforms. But Facebook's where we're seeing the most drastic increases. So the first thing we see, within I'd say 10 days of plugging in the data and the systems into Facebook, we see event match quality scores go. I mean, we've seen them jump, no kidding, from if you go inside of a match, if people are not familiar, if you go inside your Facebook Ads Manager, you can find inside the events manager, a score out next to different events. And no joke, we've seen quality match scores go from 4.4 to 7.4, in a matter of 10 to 14 days.

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Alex Ivanoff

Wow.

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Garrett Gray

And all that saying is basically that's Facebook's metric for saying, you know, it's a scale of one to 10. And they give it I think they give it a poor, good and great rating. And we can essentially almost double that, if it's in the low fours, we can get into the low sevens within, like I said, two weeks or less. And what that tells you is okay, that's kind of the first domino we'd like to see, we have like these little metrics and these benchmarks we try to, because we tell people, you know, if you're going to work with us, just give us 90 days. Okay, you know, if you didn't get into this data problem conundrum of you haven't, you know, this data conundrum you're in has taken you, you know, we're a year and a half removed from and you're still dealing with it.

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So it's not an overnight fix, but 90 days, if we can get you a 30% or more reduction in your acquisition cost, you think that would be worth it to work for this for 90 days, right. And then we try to make it very, no-brainer offers for people like guarantees, like if we don't hit these, if we don't hurt, hit certain metrics, work for free, all that sort of thing. And I would say as far as metrics and case studies, first things have a match quality score. And that gives you that's kind of the first indication, okay, Facebook's acknowledging that the data we're sending back to them is better than what you've been sending. Before you started working with us. Then what we like to do is build out segments that are relevant to and this is dependent on the company and what our goals are for them, but we build out specific segments. And then we start to sync those segments into Facebook so we can build audiences. And I'd say this is the second thing we see that's very powerful.

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We've run tests where you basically have a split test of an audience, okay? If you go inside of your audiences inside of Facebook ads, ads manager, you can see where you can see audiences, what have you named them? You can use different parameters, and then you can in Facebook will show you the size, the estimated size of that audience, right? Well, we've run split tests where Facebook default versus first party data, what we're doing, and no joke, those audience sizes will be two to 3x the size of a Facebook D file. Yeah, so that will be the second thing. So it's very much All these scores fixing, and then it takes a little longer to build those audiences because the real power is, I think 28 days is how long Facebook culture data. Right?

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Okay. So you get, it takes 21 days or so to sync fully from the CDP to Facebook. And then once you exceed that 21, 28,30 day period, that's when you really start to see the power of what we're doing because Facebook dumps your data. But we don't Yeah, because you're storing it, right, and you're just continually feeding it back to Facebook. And then you can, you can build those audiences. Like I said, we're seeing two to three exercises of what Facebook can build on its own.

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Alex Ivanoff

And I think Facebook, the only thing it holds for the audience is. Yeah, the only thing that holds is the audience itself, it doesn't hold the data. So it just holds who's in that audience for I think it's up to a year.

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Garrett Gray

Right, and then and then what we can do is we can, we can build, let's say you build an audience that's off of let's say, added to cart last 30 days, there's just for an example. Okay, and you run it and it's two, three exercises, add to cart might not be a good one, because Add to Cart, a lot of times you can get more data, because people are inputting data. So maybe a better example would be added to the segment inside the CDP. So that would mean they went to a certain page, they did a certain action, but maybe they didn't, they didn't purchase.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah they've just seen a certain product.

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Garrett Gray

Right. So what we can do is we build that initial audience two to three exercises of what Facebook could do on its own default. And then you can come back and kind of refresh that audience like every week or so, and say, Hey, build a lookalike audience off that last one. And then you can just continue to do that to keep it fresh, depending on, because you can, you can base it off of depending on what the conversion event is.

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You may want to store you may want to say hey, give me all the people that added a segment over the last 90 days, depending on your business model, it can make sense for that to be 90 days, 60 days, 30 days, whatever, but once again, it just goes back to the point of like, we're giving you the the power and the flexibility to kind of determine the how do we want to structure our ads. How do we want to structure our retargeting ads, or retargeting audiences and all that good stuff?

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Alex Ivanoff

Very interesting, very interesting stuff. When we're talking about different ways in which it seems like these brands, that brands that are listening brands are getting educated on this stuff, they haven't invested in the right tools, like, like you said, you're gonna have an attribution tool, you can have an audience tool like this. What is something that they should not be spending their money on? In terms of this ecosystem of data? Like, is there something that people just you commonly see, that's like, what are you doing?

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Garrett Gray

I would say, be careful of intent data.

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Alex Ivanoff

What's intent data?

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Garrett Gray

So intent data is just it showing the intent of a consumer based on their web activity. There are some there are, there are companies that are better at it than others. But by and large intent was kind of a big buzzword for the identity resolution, marketing data space. And it's basically the concept is basically, okay, these people are showing, they're exhibiting behavior across the web. Because, you know, I told you, we tracked across 5 billion URLs, and we have intent data we can get, and it can be very valuable. If someone is lacking conversion data, maybe they're a new company, and they don't have that much traffic. We can use intent data in some aspects. Because we have what we do, what we do is pre built. So we'll have pre built-in markets based on keywords and URLs that they visit and we know that they're in the market for a car, or plastic surgery, or whatever.

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But I'd say by and large, if you're just doing due diligence on anyone that claims to have great data, because I would say we're some of them not me specifically, but my data partners are really good and intend because I've been doing it a while. But I'll give you an example. Apollo is the targeting tool. So they recently got a lot of funding for another round of funding. And they released a feature like a month ago, I got an email from them. And it was talking about intent data. So basically, you can go into the platform, and you can sort targeting based on intent. So as an example, let's say you're an SDR rep for a SaaS company specifically, so you can go inside Apollo and make your search based on intent. I don't know where they're getting the intent data from but I have some friends of mine that were doing cold outreach. And they got okay results.

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But I think that's just a good example of anything in marketing. I always tell people like my one of my favorite quotes is from a guy named Flint McGlaughlin, which a lot of people don't know about. He's, everybody knows the Guru's the main gurus, right? In space, but he is the founder, CEO of a place called Mec Labs. And they just do a phenomenal job of testing and, and distilling down marketing concepts and, and what they find from split tests and stuff like that. So, but he's got a quote that says something like, there's no such thing as an expert marketer, only experienced marketers and expert testers. And that's what I would tell people with all of this is like, you can't stay curious. And you're never going to have it figured out. But if you're like me, that's, that's enjoyable. I think that's a fun thing. You're like, I mean, it can be frustrating, don't get me wrong, but knowing that you, it never gets boring, like, if you're in this space, you have to stay curious, and you have to stay on top of things.

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So when it comes to data, I wouldn't say there's no value there, I would just say I would caution people to be careful. And if you can read reviews, and even if it's the first time you're dealing with someone be like, you know, try to work with them on a maybe a performance basis, like, Okay, we want to test this out. But if we don't get any calls from it, or maybe we pay you on a per call basis, or a per conversion basis, or something like that. Just don't don't don't dump a bunch of money expecting intent to be some kind of magic bullet. Yeah. And it'd be, it can be beneficial in the right context. But I would just caution people on thinking that's gonna be like, it's just going to solve all their problems.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah. Fair enough. Cool. All right, Garrett, well, actually on the topic of you. And someone you look up to, I guess, one thing we'd like to do, when we wrap up our show is ask our signature questions. So I'll get to that. And we can begin to wrap up. So the question is, if you could sit in a room with a bunch of mentors once every morning to help guide you, who would that person or persons be? That can be dead or alive?

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Garrett Gray

So I love this question. I was looking at the outline you kind of gave me before our call. So just kind of reviewing it. And I saw that question at the end. And I thought, that's really cool. And I had to force myself to keep the list short, like, essential. I feel like I love to read. But I like frameworks, so the best way I know to answer that question would be Tai Lopez talks a lot about the four pillars of good life, health, wealth, love and happiness, right? So I thought about, okay, well, if I get picked somebody from each of those categories, that would be a pretty good group.

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So I would say, for me, my first one is, is going to be Jesus, I'm a believer, and I think, whether or not you believe in Christianity or not, it's hard to read the teachings of Christ and not see the value. I think we could, we could all use, this world could use a lot more forgiveness and love in it. So I would say that first would be for sure. Second, Marcus Aurelius. I'm fascinated by his meditations, daily stoic, and I love that book. I've had it for years, and I read it every morning. And I think it's fascinating that Marcus Aurelius was essentially the most powerful man in the world, and could have done anything he wanted, but he made a concerted effort to be a good person, and, and do right by the people of Rome and his family and, and his friends, his army all that like he just, he had every excuse to be a selfish tyrant like most in history have become and I just think the fact that we get to read through his like, if people aren't familiar with the meditations is basically like his personal diary was never meant to be consumed by anyone but himself.

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But we have it 1000s of years later, now we can learn from somebody that so I really like him. I think his life is pretty interesting given all the things I just mentioned. And then when it comes to health, like I said, I'm into fitness so I had to think about this when I thought about Arnold Schwarzenegger. But I think if I had to pick one person, I would pick a guy named Mike O'Hearn.

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Alex Ivanoff

I know that name.

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Garrett Gray

And I think Mike, he's, I think he's like, 52. If you look this guy up, it's just amazing. Yeah. And I've been following him for probably 10 years. And the guy is just just consistent, man. And he looks, he's 52. And he looks like he looks better than most 25 year olds. And he's just, he's just the nicest guy. You just, you can tell. He cares about people. He likes helping folks get healthy. And he walks in. He's been doing it for years. So Mike O'Hearn. And then if I got to keep it at four, I think I'd say Jordan Peterson.

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I just, he gets a bad rap online. Because unfortunately, the world we live in is really easy for people to take sound bites, and, and snip them in a way that is misrepresenting of the whole point of whatever the person was saying, which drives me nuts about the internet, because you get people all up in arms, and they took a 10 second clip of an hour long discussion. And they're like, you don't have context. They're like, he said what? She said what? And then unless someone does their due diligence and says, goes and finds the whole interview, they're like, oh, okay, so I think Jordan Peterson gets a bad rap. But I would encourage anyone to read his book 12 Rules for Life. And then the second one is Beyond Order. So it's a, they feed into each other. But they're, they're good enough standalones on their own.

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But I think Jordan Peterson is because I actually went to one of his lectures, and he's just, I think he's got a good heart. He cares about people. And I think he's doing good work. It's awesome. Yeah. And I would love to have, you know, if I had those four, that I could speak to on a regular basis, I think that would, it would definitely help me live a better life, whether that be personal, or spiritual, or even in business? Like I think in health, obviously, for my goals.

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Alex Ivanoff

Yeah. Awesome. It's a good, good way of looking at it. Cool. So where can people that are listening, you know, find out more from you. I know, for Digital Growth Labs just go to DigitalGrowthLabs.com, like you said, there should be a new setup soon by the time this is out. But where can people subscribe to Garrett Gray?

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Garrett Gray

So LinkedIn, and Twitter is where I'm trying to focus a lot of my efforts these days. Admittedly, I do better. I'm trying to get better with video content. So I do have a YouTube channel. But there's not a lot of content there. But I do it on the To-Do, right. But I'd say for the most part, Twitter and LinkedIn are where I'm the most active.

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Alex Ivanoff

And is due for Twitter. Do you like a specific handle?

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, I think it's, let me look real quick. I don't want to tell you wrong.

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My Twitter handle is Garrett DGL. So it's @GarrettDGL.

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Alex Ivanoff

Nice, super easy, remember. Cool. All right. Well, thank you so much for the past hour and change. I mean, this is really helpful. I'm super excited to hear what people say and you know, see what happens in the future Digital Growth Labs and overall the future of data and marketing ecosystem, all this, all this stuff that's rapidly changing. It's already awesome to connect with people like yourself who have pretty good, pretty good tabs on it and solutions for it. So super thankful and, and yeah.

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Garrett Gray

Yeah, thanks for having me. I enjoyed it. Awesome.

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Alex Ivanoff

All right. Well, for everyone listening. Thank you for listening and check us out at GoRocketCart.com for more episodes, and yeah, come reach out and talk to us. Thank you so much.

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